Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bosintang]

Spawned from a post-Christmas dinner argument today.

What, if anything, do foreign teachers bring to a classroom that a well-trained Korean English-teacher can't bring? Are we worth the money we are paid? (In the sense, that the goal is to efficiently teach English.)

[trevorcollins]

Actually I teach in both a hagwon and a public elementary school.
Some of the elementary school kids also come to my hagwon and without fail those same students are top of their class at the public school.
So something with the foreign teacher hagwon system is working.
In my experience most Korean teachers don't use a whole lot of English in class. They spend 90% of the class yapping away in Korean. No doubt explaining stuff in detail that we can't.
However when it comes to conversation we kick their ass.
Catch is a lot of foreign teachers here would rather just hand out worksheets, wordfinds and play card games.

[Paji eh Wong]

[Sage Monkey]

[VanIslander]

[phaedrus]

I think someone willing to come overseas and work is worth more than the current average wage.

[Ya-ta Boy]

I agree with the others who said 'no'. If the Korean teachers are trained in language teaching (modern methodology), then the Koreans are being ripped off.

One of the main problems is lack of classroom management skills. This takes time to learn and is the main reason two out of three beginning teachers in the US don't return for a second year.

The second main problem is the lack of proper training in teaching. Even with the best of materials, it takes work, preparation and time to make a good lesson. We've all seen posts here about prep time and the reluctance of many to put that time in.

In my opinion, the fundamental problem is that far too many Koreans think that 'anyone' can teach. My boss is open about his belief. He has never stated reasons for saying it. His personal inability to teach makes it difficult to discuss with him.

I think the other problems are Korean-generated. It is simply absurd to put 40 people in a class that requires them to use the language in a controlled atmosphere and expect them to learn much. You might learn to appreciate art in an art appreciation class, but you aren't going to learn to become a painter.

One poster mentioned that about all Koreans are getting for their investment is pronunciation practice. I think that is true. A free round-trip plane ticket, a free apartment, insurance/pension benefits and a salary that is about double what the Koreans doing the same thing make: and all they get is someone who may (or may not) be able to teach them how to pronounce the vowels and monitor intonation. Not much for the money.

[diablo3]

You don't think you are worth the money? If you were doing ESL in Korea for 10 years, do you think your salary will increase incrementally?

We come to Korea expecting to teach, but most of us end up entertaining.

It certainly takes practise to become very good in teaching. 1 year is a good start but there is always room for improvement.

For those who don't know English, it is due to being in their original country too long. Given time, these problems will be ironed out step by step while teaching as it is a chance to learn grammar again. Most of us learn grammar in primary/elementary school and never use a grammar book after. I remember a few things I changed to make students understand my English. Grammar refreshers are vital.

Also, preparaton does not have to be diligent and perfect, students should also participate and therefore help add value for their own lesson, it is their money which is spent. Of course, we can help start ideas. However, it usually ends up we start all the ideas.

I also believe many of us are not suited to teaching. I mean, what is the real reason for coming to a country which is so different to our own?

We are worth our money. After all, who teaches us to teach? We are independant from the first class we start. Most of us are never monitored for effective feedback and improvement. Most schools also do not capture teachers' experiences for advising future teachers and sharing ideas. If we go, the school loses a service.

[some waygug-in]

In defense of the teachers I have to say that the problem as I see it lies in the fact that the majority of students DON'T WANT TO F******** LEARN ENGLISH! They are in class because they have to be, or because their friends are there, or because their parents want them off the streets and out of the PC rooms.

I am not saying that the problems mentioned by previous posters don't exist, they do. But more often than not, especially in hagwans, the place has no resources or support for the "teachers", they go out of their way to find the inexperienced, and then they are "surprised" at the results.

Go figure.


I would be willing to take a cut in pay if I knew the money would go into supplying proper resources for the school.

The place where I currently work has copies of all the Let's Go books and some other series sitting in a shelf for all to see............. but .........
these are just for show.

The kids don't have books, the director told me that if I want to use the books I have to photocopy.
It's just plain ridiculous. There are no cards, tapes or anything else that is supposed to go with the books.

Playing games, sure... what else can I do?

When I try to really "teach" something, the students complain, 'class Jaime opta' and they start to cause problems, fight, whatever.

Are Koreans getting their money's worth? No, but whose fault is it?

[jaderedux]

Am I worth my money .....bleeping a bubba...I am. I teach 26 classes a week in a junior high. The first year was horrible....third years were a disaster second years were about 50/50. But the first years were GREAT!

Now those first year student are graduating. There are 5 going to foreign language schools. We have won english speech contests. Several others passed tests to go to private schools. (english being part of that).

This year a volunteer class (club activity class) put together a newspaper.

Is it just because of me? NO! But I have great partner teachers. We work as a team having me teach the dialogue and speech parts leaves them free to teach the grammar intensively. My once a week class gives them the chance to see english is fun. It isn't horrible. It doesn't have to be like pulling teeth.

My korean teachers struggle with pronunciation but they run circles around me with grammar. So now my students take chances. The hover around my desk talking really just talking. A fellow teacher's brother came to visit (same age as my students) and many of them tried so hard to talk to him and even want to email him.

I see them on streets and they try so hard to chat. Not perfect but at least they try.

Am I worth it??? Damn skippy! I am proud of what I have accomplished. I brought some quality teachers here last year and their students stop and try to talk to me. Ask questions...wait for answers...giggle and are so proud of themselves. Even elementary students. Are they worth it! Damn straight!

Every damn dime. Learning a foreign language is not easy. As native speakers we give them a break from grueling schedule. They see the fun, excitement of learning to communicate in a foreign language. Everytime time some student that isn't mine runs up to me and says....oh you are ____teacher's friend. How are you? We like ______teacher. You are pretty like ______teacher. I smile cuz we made this happen.

The korean teachers rock..they work hard but they have to make sure they pass tests....we can impart the joy of learning...the joy of opening the door to a different world through language.

Jade the sermonizer

[fidel]

I'm with J. I'm worth double what I get paid now and haven't been afraid to tell the korean teachers that. They get paid a crap load more than me to do a shite load less (in classes that is). I admit they have to come to school on Sats and have admin tasks to do, but shooooooooooottttttttt, most teachers don't put a lot of effort into their classes and just follow the texts they have. Teachers at my school get paid enough in that the 50% contribution they make towards pension equals to about 300,000 won per month. Do the math.

I'm a great teacher that deserves more, more I say.

[Ilsanman]

I think I am. If the school falls apart due to mismanagement, that's not my fault. If they sign me in a contract, I expect them to fulfill it, just as I do. I don't sign contracts with intention of not completing them.

I show up on time, I do my work, I try to teach well. I need support, and if I get it, everything goes well. Everyone knows the latter side of that.

[harixseldon]

How long are you considering training these Korean English teachers for? Because I think it takes a hell of a long time to get perfect or near perfect pronounciation of a foreign language especially when you're only using the language for part of the day, i.e. class, or work.

That's what I'm here for, conversation and pronounciation. I bet there's a lot of Korean teachers that can teach grammer much better than I can but they still can't really talk in English.

That being said I think I'm worth the money I'm being paid. And I'd be worth even more if (like "some waygug-in" said before) the kids here actually wanted to learn English.

[the_beaver]

[Homer]