Korean Job Discussion Forums

Daechidong Waygookin · Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:58 pm Post subject:

I dont have a "hate on" for these guys. I only want to see justice done. This hits particularly close to home because I am also an elementary school teacher. These guys are messing with my income and my job.

When I came over I made sure to check the legality of every facet of my job and I was educated enough to know what is and what is not legal. I took that especially seriously.

Barking Mad Lord Snapcase · Joined: 04 Nov 2003

Daechidong Waygookin · Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:52 pm Post subject:

Barking Mad Lord Snapcase · Joined: 04 Nov 2003

Daechidong Waygookin · Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:01 pm Post subject:

itaewonguy · Joined: 25 Mar 2003

well you can all be rest assured.. that the korean behind this will be forced to pay back all the money he scammed.. he will be sent to prison.
the foreign teachers will all get exit orders. which means they can return to korea in 8 days and seek legal work! justice served!
the slimly korea is getting DONE! why should he make 1 million dollars!!!
*beep* HIM!!!
now he can sit in the concrete hotel! and think was it worth it!!!?

teachers were nothing more than pawns! they didnt know what was happening.. until they figured out they were making 10 million from a school while he was making 25million!! good on the teachers who ratted him out!

Dr. Buck · Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Location: Land of the Morning Clam

Isn't it a bit odd considering the number of teachers involved in this situation have not told their side of the story yet, either on this message board, or on another that could be linked to this thread, or even told and written up by a third party friend?

Anyone know one of the teachers involved? Or the schools? Or name of the recruiter?

It's a bit sad to speculate on such things when such details are not even known.

Daechidong Waygookin: "This hits particularly close to home because I am also an elementary school teacher. These guys are messing with my income and my job."

Get a grip on your insecurities--they make you sound weak, stupid and spiteful. I'm an elementary teacher also and this hardly relates to my job. Show some logic and class.

The Bobster · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Itaewonguy makes a good point, possibly the first bit of sense in all of this : this kind of thing goes on quite a lot, but usually small scale, most often in the case of a hagwon that needs to fill a position quickly so they bring a teacher over and have them work for a month or two before sending them to Japan for their visa.

(In the process, the school get a teacher on a 13-month gig - or more - while only paying them pension severance and medical, and keeping the money for themselves that was supposed to have gone for these things and, oh yeah, taxes, all this anf the teacher might get their actual benefits for 12 months, and if something goes wrong they might pay a fine but the teacher gets deported with a no-return notation made on their passport.)

This was a bunch of scammers and what Deacheedong W conveniently forgets is that the teachers were the ones getting ripped off. Likely IG is on the money and if anyone is likely to have turned them in it was one of the folks getting rooked. Likely it didn't occur to any of them that Korea is not a whistleblwer's paradise, and the one who copped on the whole is likely scratching his head about it all right now.

I'm not so harsh as a few people here because I actually did work without a visa for my first month here, which is so long ago that any record of it likely does not exist any more. It occurred to me later that I'd been persuaded to take a chance that was left me hanging for penalties that I did not really deserve - hey, you're in a new country and you trusted somebody, so no, there are greater evils in the world than this.

After that experience, though, I realized, there's no real reason I need to take chances like that, so I simply haven't ... or maybe no one's offered me enough money to make it worthwhile. Unlike when I was new to country (as these guys likely were) I have a lot of friends here now, some emotional stake in being able to stay as long as I want and not when someone else tells me to get out.

As time goes by I've noticed something odd, though - the longer you are here the fewer jobs there seem to be out there. But that's mainly because I'm smarter now and I know what rats smell like over here. I've also seen a lot of schools frankly tell me they don't value classroom experience experience very much, and when I hear that I start thinking, "Hey, these guys might be looking for a chump, and maybe they can tell I'm not that guy." And then I suddenly remember an urgent appointment with a cup of coffee ... anywhere is a better place to be than sitting in a room with someone who is looking for a chump.

DW, I really loved this bit :

Daechidong Waygookin · Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:23 am Post subject:

I realize that I am not earning much sympathy. Thats fine.

As for me falling on my face. Its possible. However, I take extra care to be sure that I am not doing anything that would even get me remotely into any trouble. Its not arrogance. Its attention to detail.

Yes, I know that the teachers were lied to and cheated. However, they obviously didnt do their homework. I would have smelled the rat in a second.

riverboy · Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Location: Incheon

That's really funny. I'm a middle school teacher and I feel threatened in no way whatsoever. If it is true, I belive that the teachers were duped especially if they had e-2 visas
It is easy for a recruiter to pull the wool over foriegners. Yes we are naive at times. When I first came to Korea, I started work three days after I arrived. Two weeks later, I signed my contract, a month later I got my Visa. I had no idea it was illegal. Did my employer? Yes of course. I just came to get a job.
When I got my, job a the middleschool, it was through a recruiter. I told him I was waiting for the paperwork to be processed for my F-2 visa, he said "not to worry, It's not a problem." I blindly and foolishly belived him. When I went to process my visa, I thought it was a simple matter of going in like my previous job where after signing my contract, I just had to go and tell them, give them my contract and they would process my visa and I would be on my way. Boy was I wrong. I went on the way things are done in this country.
I don't know of an ESL teacher who had not been involved in a situation like this. Most people who come here violate Korean immigration laws for at least a week. Should they all be deported? Like I said earlier. I could care less who nis working illegaly. I have a job(or three) I make good money and what people do on thier own accord is no concern of mine.

chronicpride · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Daechidong Waygookin · Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:32 am Post subject:

paperbag princess · Joined: 07 Mar 2004 Location: veggie hell

it's total b.s. i feel sorry for the teachers. none of the schools that i have worked at have been on the up and up (re: taxes etc), but no one cares that school owners are cheating.

the visa system is retarded. they need foreign teachers, yet they make it so hard to get a new one that i understand totally why people work illegally (the LOR system sucks).

ChooChooPongPong · Joined: 15 Jun 2003

i think a thread like this truly brings out the zeitgeist of elscafe's avid cyber-police. for those who think the teachers are to blame, you people need to lighten up and stop being so bitter and elitist. you seem to think korea is your secret little treasure trove and how dare any other foriengnor blindly take the leap across the ocean and grab a piece of the cake (that has had too many mice nibbling on it for a long time now).

legality is an issue that one should be careful with in korea. first of all, the laws are stupid, and korea is fighting a losing battle and screwing itself at both ends. the laws dont protect anything and, if anything, hold back the industry and keep it a hakwon system. japan's system demands a lot more intelligence from teachers who teach there. its not just getting on a plane and being dumped in your paid apartment like it is in korea. THAT is what is wrong with korea's system. anyone, and everyone, can come and teach here. and that is exactly how it is. if korea started to model japan's system half the teachers here now wouldnt be here, and our wages would be higher. but, the industry and market simply can't slow down for that. the hakwons are simply too greedy and slap happy and do you think your director has a problem with trappin you in an e-2? not at all most of the time.

i think teaching illegally is the way to go in korea if you do it wisely. i came here the traditional way via a hakwon three years ago, and it was a good way to break into things. my second year, i worked illegally on a tourist visa and made twice as much as i did in my first year, and i never had any problems with my bosses because i was independent. never forced into overtime, never had apartment problems, never had any pay problems. jobs were easy to get and a good reputation paved the way. the problems started when i took a job teaching mornings at an elementary through a recruiter who didnt pay on time. i simply told the school i was going to quit and magically they dropped the recruiter and paid me directly, and more.

that said, don't believe all you read. the numbers posted sound very unrealistic, and from what i have witnessed the recruiters cant take as huge a cut as we like to think.

all in all, the illegal teaching scene in korea is huge, and will continue to be huge, and it is the laws that are the problem, not the people breaking them. bad teachers dont get very far teaching illegally if the students etc. are unhappy from what i have seen. but a crappy teacher on an e-2 is another matter.

huge companies in korea, such as LG, Samsung etc. hire teachers illegally all the time and immigration doesn't go near them most of the time.

all in all, japan is a much better situation to be in for all parties. i hope korea moves toward that kind of market within the next ten years. the golden age has come and gone in korea.