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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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paperbag princess
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell
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 Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:39 am Post subject: |
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i think we are underpaid and overworked.
as said earlier, korean teachers are great for grammar, but for actual conversation, we're better. most of the korean co-teachers i've had, have always only spoken korean in their classes. |
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:41 am Post subject: |
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The Korean confucian mindset is all about preserving harmony. Even if it's at the expense of competence. Harmony as far as our teaching English is concerned is creating the image of the attractive foreigener to attract students. The Korean mindset with regards to learning English means learning about western culture because it's what they all secretly look up to.
They are willing to put up with all the trappings that come from learning English despite the incompetent teachers that get into the system, because to not do so would disrupt the harmony that permeates every Koreans needs and expectations ( be they warped, or be they realistic) about the the language |
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Homer
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Paperbag princess,
And how does what you say mean we are underpaid???
When you factor in your pay do not forget to include rent being paid by the school.... |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Paperbag princess,
And how does what you say mean we are underpaid???
When you factor in your pay do not forget to include rent being paid by the school.... |
Most hagwon teachers are overworked and I guess it logically follows that they're underpaid for what they do. A 30 hour work week, when you tack on additional prep, leaves no time for anything. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm fairly new at this, but I think a foreign teacher can bring a lot if he can get the kids to pay attention. A Korean teacher who can actually speak English properly could do just as much, but there are some teachers at my hagwon who should be sitting in my classes. It's often necessary to re-teach phonics properly after the Korean teacher is done. I sat in on one teacher's lesson and I couldn't even understand what she was saying. 'Evelyon tooch de were ... tooch de were ... tooch de were...'.
Oh, 'touch the wall'.
We're useful for pronounciation and idiom if nothing else. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| Homer wrote: |
Paperbag princess,
And how does what you say mean we are underpaid???
When you factor in your pay do not forget to include rent being paid by the school.... |
Most hagwon teachers are overworked and I guess it logically follows that they're underpaid for what they do. A 30 hour work week, when you tack on additional prep, leaves no time for anything. |
But overworked compared to who? The Korean teachers? Nope they work longer for less pay. A job back home? 40 hours (60 minutes, not the 50 or 40 minute hours here) or more is standard. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| But overworked compared to who? The Korean teachers? Nope they work longer for less pay. A job back home? 40 hours (60 minutes, not the 50 or 40 minute hours here) or more is standard. |
Back home teachers don't teach 40 hours a week. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Back home teachers don't teach 40 hours a week. |
True Beaver.
But, coming from a family of teachers (Mother, Father, 3 uncles, 2 Aunts), the certainly work a lot harder then we do on the avg week.
They might not teach 40 hours but they grade a lot more papers and have a whole different set of problems. Also, I was a teacher back home for a couple of years prior to Korea and I always took grading home with me.
Then there are the staff meetings, parents to deal with ( a whole lot more work then here). The students (I taught High School) are also another challenge and many teachers burn out because of the abuse they must endure in the classroom.
You do get better holidays back home however....
In my opinion, both jobs have their own set of challenges and advantages. |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:43 am Post subject: |
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This conversation has taken a spin in a direction I wasn't wishing it would go in. I'm not talking about comparing our lifestyle back home to what we do or earn here. I'm not even talking about us, but rather want to look at from a Korean perspective and how useful we are to them.
A quick mental calculation tells me that an average foreign English teacher, in comparison to their Korean counterpart, earns a good 40%+ more salary, comes with more hassle and less qualifications, and puts less hours in.
My question is: are we worth this trouble? Are kids learning English significantly more efficiently, if at all, because we are here teaching them? Again, I'm talking from a broad Korean perspective, not from a perspective of what a foreign teacher feels they are worth, or what any specific teacher actually provides. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
| My question is: are we worth this trouble? Are kids learning English significantly more efficiently, if at all, because we are here teaching them? Again, I'm talking from a broad Korean perspective, not from a perspective of what a foreign teacher feels they are worth, or what any specific teacher actually provides. |
Nope. Not worth it. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
This conversation has taken a spin in a direction I wasn't wishing it would go in. I'm not talking about comparing our lifestyle back home to what we do or earn here. I'm not even talking about us, but rather want to look at from a Korean perspective and how useful we are to them.
A quick mental calculation tells me that an average foreign English teacher, in comparison to their Korean counterpart, earns a good 40%+ more salary, comes with more hassle and less qualifications, and puts less hours in.
My question is: are we worth this trouble? Are kids learning English significantly more efficiently, if at all, because we are here teaching them? Again, I'm talking from a broad Korean perspective, not from a perspective of what a foreign teacher feels they are worth, or what any specific teacher actually provides. |
Interesting points. As I said, I'm pretty new at this, but from my limited perspective it seems that we're useful at the beginners' level for teaching pronounciation, and they're going to learn the wrong way from their Korean teachers at any rate. Considering how difficult it can be to get the kids to pay attention in larger classes, they might be better off getting another lesson from a Korean.
At the more advanced level, or with adults, I think we're quite valuable. Let me give you an example: in one class we were reading a story about a family that goes to America and visits the state capitol. The Korean teacher thought 'capitol' was a mis-spelling. Unless you've been to America, how would you know that 'capitol' means the state parliament buildings? We can teach things about Western culture that will be valuable, too, since most kids who go to hagwon will visit or even live in an English-speaking country at some point.
But you have a good point; there are times with the little kids when no one's paying attention and I sound like a broken record, thinking to myself 'this is just a farce'. It's all about impressing the parents. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| But overworked compared to who? The Korean teachers? Nope they work longer for less pay. A job back home? 40 hours (60 minutes, not the 50 or 40 minute hours here) or more is standard. |
Back home teachers don't teach 40 hours a week. |
Back home, most people here wouldn't be teachers. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Back home, most people here wouldn't be teachers. |
True.
My point is that in order to be a good teacher you need time to prep and relax. With a forty (or even thirty) hour work week you can prep or relax but not both. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
This conversation has taken a spin in a direction I wasn't wishing it would go in. I'm not talking about comparing our lifestyle back home to what we do or earn here. I'm not even talking about us, but rather want to look at from a Korean perspective and how useful we are to them.
A quick mental calculation tells me that an average foreign English teacher, in comparison to their Korean counterpart, earns a good 40%+ more salary, comes with more hassle and less qualifications, and puts less hours in.
My question is: are we worth this trouble? Are kids learning English significantly more efficiently, if at all, because we are here teaching them? Again, I'm talking from a broad Korean perspective, not from a perspective of what a foreign teacher feels they are worth, or what any specific teacher actually provides. |
It depends........ as other posters have said, if the students are at a high enough level that we can actually hold a conversation with them IN ENGLISH, then we can do some good.
If however, we are stuck in a room with a bunch of screaming brats whose only aim in life is, "ddong chim king", with little or no resources, no support and only constant complaints that the little darlings aren't learning............. 
Incidently, there are other reasons why we deserve more money:
Schools often expect us to supply our own resources, buy books, tape players etc. Even if the school says that they supply all necessary resources, they usually don't.
We have no support system for us if we need help, whereas Koreans have their families and friends to help them if a problem arises.
Some of us paid our own way here and don't get refunded for it.
We may or may not get any health insurance. I've been here 3 years and have never had anything worthwhile. The 1st. place I worked had this phoney scheme that would only pay up to 50,000 won, anything above that was up to you. The next two had nothing, eventhough it was in the contract.
We are not allowed to teach privates legally, whereas Koreans are.
We can be fired without notice and forced to payback airfare and sometimes even recruiter fees, immigration can fine us and deport us at our own expense. If a school wants to play nasty, there's not a whole lot we can do about it.
We have to leave the country to get a work visa, sometimes at our own expense.
Then there are all the emotional factors to deal with, culture shock, isolation, all the staring and pointing. All the weird intrusions on our private life.
Korean teachers are respected in the classroom, we are not. The students will obey if the Korean teacher tells them to be quiet and listen.
They just ignore me, unless I totally freak out and scream at them.
I will probably think of a few more reasons, but I think this is enough for now.
Cheers |
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matthewwoodford
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Location, location, location.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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There are plenty of people in the world who are not worth what they get paid and plenty more who are worth a lot more than what they get paid. In utopia perhaps, proficiency and effort are fairly recompensed but on earth the measure of how good a job you do is how good a job someone else would be willing to do for the same money.
So just try to get the best pay you can for the most satisfying work you can find; you're worth whatever you can get. |
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