|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Cheyne
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Location: Ilsan
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:08 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| korian wrote: |
i'm from sydney too and now live on the gold coast. my fiance is korean. i never denied or even claimed some individuals in australia weren't racist or there weren't pockets of racism in australia. never even brought the topic up. we have experienced idiots of all kinds being idiots. that hardly entitles me to say 'australia' is racist.
i objected to the generalisations and misinformation thrown about with such ease about 'australia' and the way some people tossed about opinions as fact. and even misused information to propogate the nonsense.
there are racist people everywhere. it doesn't make a country racist. |
I totally agree with you here mate. I have heard a small amount of people generalise a certain group of ethnics as being lazy or dole bludgers but it usually comes out of the mouth of some ignorant cunt who has never travelled outside their own city.
As for Pauline Hanson, she was never going to become PM or even the Premier of Qld as she targeted older rural Qld'ers, not a majority of Qld or Australia.
Also, Kiwiboy, what about the way the NZ gov't deals with Maori's?
Korian, good to hear you have seen the light and moved up to the greatest state in Aus!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
TJ
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:38 pm Post subject: Generalisations and misinformation |
|
|
| korian wrote: |
i'm from sydney too and now live on the gold coast. my fiance is korean. i never denied or even claimed some individuals in australia weren't racist or there weren't pockets of racism in australia. never even brought the topic up. we have experienced idiots of all kinds being idiots. that hardly entitles me to say 'australia' is racist.
i objected to the generalisations and misinformation thrown about with such ease about 'australia' and the way some people tossed about opinions as fact. and even misused information to propogate the nonsense.
there are racist people everywhere. it doesn't make a country racist. |
I also object to the generalisations and misinformation that some people have posted on this forum.
I'm from Western Australia although I have lived in Tasmania (and New Zealand) as well. I've lived in cities and in rural areas in all these locations and have witnessed racism in some of these places.
HOWEVER, it is mostly in small pockets and seems to be more common amongst people who have a low level of education. Further more, in my experience it is more prevalent in cities rather than rural areas.
What's more noticeable is that racism is not restricted to white people. Aboriginal people in Australia sometimes act in a racist way towards white people. Asian people in Sydney sometimes do the same to whites there. Street gangs of young Lebanese immigrants to Australia sometimes target white people.
Many years ago my wife and I (we are white) lived in a rural town in W.A. Our neighbours were white, malay and aboriginal. Most were wonderful people but we experienced discrimination, mostly in the form of verbal abuse, from some of the aboriginals.
In suburban Perth (population 2 million) I had a friend who managed a 'thrift' shop which provides low price clothing and furniture for low income families (of all races). He was a perfect gentleman but he was verbally abused by aboriginal people - admittedly there were only a few offenders.
On a more positive note ......... my sister in law lives in a street where her neighbours are Japanese, Chinese and white. They are all good friends and socialise together frequently. In my current home town of Wagin (population 700) the pharmacist's wife is Malaysian and she is treated with respect by all the townspeople.
So, please don't say that Australia is a racist country.
PS. Please note the use of underlining and bold print. I wouldn't want anyone to think I was generalising. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
korian
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i think one of the biggest differences between western countries and their counterparts around the world is that racism is not tolerated and is overtly prohibited. it is taught in primary school, high school, university and every other layer of society. of course it doesn't stop people from acting in a racist manner but ant-racism awareness is high on the government's agenda.
moreover, if people are seen to be acting in a racist way they ar epunished and often publicly admonished. western countries are trying to send a message to the world that racism will not be tolerated or accepted.
of course that hardly prevents people from being racist, but i think racism as a whole is on the decline in western countries.
and one of the main reasons we still hear of racism in our countries is simply because it's such a serious issue that it warrants reporting in the news. like all the racist chants in european soccer recently. if racism wasn't an issue then it wouldn't be in the news. but because it is an issue, it was all over the news, clubs were fined and football associations publicly castigated.
the fact that it's out in the open shows there is an active movemnet to be rid of it. which can't be said for a lot of other countries around the world, including korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
waterbaby
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| korian wrote: |
and to rapier, quoting waterbaby.
"Just ask waterbaby's korean husband. Despite being better qualified than the competition, he was continuously rejected for jobs over a 7 month period as soon as they saw his skin color."
and here's what waterbaby said
"He hasn't experienced any "blatant" racism (he's been here about 7 months now) but he has experienced rejection after rejection while seeking employment - he has more than enough quals for the jobs he's applying for, but was only getting one bite out of about 20 applications and even then, once they heard his accent or met him in person, they didn't even send a "thanks but no thanks" letter/email/phone call. "
rapier, where does she say he is 'better' qualified than the competition? and where is the part that says he was rejected for his 'skin colour'? i can't seem to find it in there.
she says he was rejected when they heard his accent or met him in person. granted the 'met him in person' bit could imply discrimination, which is different from racism as i'm sure you know. but she doesn't say what kind of jobs he's applying for. if there is a lot of conversation necessary then......his few months of studying just mightn't cut it. we don't know coz waterbaby didn't say.
moreover, i'd like to ask waterbaby if her husband is a permanent resident yet or not. coz even though they're married he won't get PR until they've been so for 2 years. and that makes a big difference for employability. |
First of all - my husband hasn't been applying for jobs for 7 months. (He was studying for the first 3 or so, worked for 2 months with a Korean guy who was renovating a house and was looking for a job for about a month in Nov/Dec. He's got one now with a Korean import company, which is more along the lines of what he was doing back in Korea, and best of all, he loves it  )
Secondly, I would never say that he was "better qualified" than the competition because we never knew who they were!!! With his skills and experience, I thought he was more than qualified for the jobs he applied for, but his lack of confidence in his English is holding him back - he ran a restuarant for 3 years - he can't even get a look-in as a waiter! (He applied for a wide range of jobs with a wide range of responsibilites - from waiter to warehouse guy to marketing & sales and events co-ordinator... a whole bunch of jobs - most I don't even remember now.)
Thirdly, he has provisional permanent residency, which gives him the right to work - there's no difference between his work rights on this visa and if he was to have a permanent resident visa. It may make a difference in the mind of an employer, but on paper, it doesn't.
His English is far from perfect. He makes loads of mistakes but can communicate his message quite well - but then, I'm also used to the way he speaks and his accent. He also takes a while to adjust to different people's accents and their way of speaking... especially on the phone... which made it really hard for him to make a great impression first up when he had to ask them to repeat a question.
What I found most distressing about this job hunting experience is that people don't even send a "thanks but no thanks" letter or email or phone call to acknowledge his application.  That's just rudeness. I wonder if that's what the job situation is like in general... or if stems from him being Korean. I don't know. It's my suspicion that it's because he's Asian - but that's just my gut instinct.
We've never experienced any racist or derogatory remarks while we've been out together, and nor has he when he's on his own or out with Korean friends. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| waterbaby wrote: |
What I found most distressing about this job hunting experience is that people don't even send a "thanks but no thanks" letter or email or phone call to acknowledge his application. |
That is one thing that s**ts me about korea, many employers/recruiters won't contact you if you don't get the job. Sad to see the same is happening in the motherland. manners are becoming non existant it seems |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mashimaro wrote: |
| waterbaby wrote: |
What I found most distressing about this job hunting experience is that people don't even send a "thanks but no thanks" letter or email or phone call to acknowledge his application. |
That is one thing that s**ts me about korea, many employers/recruiters won't contact you if you don't get the job. Sad to see the same is happening in the motherland. manners are becoming non existant it seems |
Its not manners. Its racism.
In australia its because wb's b.f is asian.
in Korea its because you're white.
Don't try and twist it mashmellow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
waterbaby
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey rapier - what's with the Marshmallow comment? You guys fighting somewhere else on the board???
Mashimaro is sharing his experience of job hunting and looking at how the lack of feedback from employers has also been non-existant in Korea. That's how I took it. I don't see the "twisting" angle.
We can't presume to know what's going on in the minds of employers, both here in Oz and there in Korea. I don't think it's fair to say that it's outright racism.
I'm going to do some digging here to find out if other people (ie white australians) are experiencing this sort of thing themselves, just don't know anyone in the job market at the moment. Hmmm... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rapier wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
| waterbaby wrote: |
What I found most distressing about this job hunting experience is that people don't even send a "thanks but no thanks" letter or email or phone call to acknowledge his application. |
That is one thing that s**ts me about korea, many employers/recruiters won't contact you if you don't get the job. Sad to see the same is happening in the motherland. manners are becoming non existant it seems |
Its not manners. Its racism.
In australia its because wb's b.f is asian.
in Korea its because you're white.
Don't try and twist it mashmellow. |
ooooh namecalling... or should I say ID calling? great fallback when your argument isn't going so well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mashimaro wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
| waterbaby wrote: |
What I found most distressing about this job hunting experience is that people don't even send a "thanks but no thanks" letter or email or phone call to acknowledge his application. |
That is one thing that s**ts me about korea, many employers/recruiters won't contact you if you don't get the job. Sad to see the same is happening in the motherland. manners are becoming non existant it seems |
Its not manners. Its racism.
In australia its because wb's b.f is asian.
in Korea its because you're white.
Don't try and twist it mashmellow. |
ooooh namecalling... or should I say ID calling? great fallback when your argument isn't going so well. |
Ok. You're absolutely right, there is no racism in Australia at all. Thats why the Aborigines are all cooped up, unemployed in the desert with govt
booze handouts and low life expectancies. I imagined it all when I was there.
As Mash has proven that Raciam doesn't exist in the enlightened hinterland of Australia, I think we have to conclude that waterbabys boyfriend was unable to find work for nearly a year, despite having satisfactory qualifications, as due to coincidence, every last interviewer he had was simply having a bad day that year.
If I'd said "there's no racism in Australia" you would have written pages on the evils of skinheads and the stolen generation. Its amazing, you make an obviously true statement on here, and people immediately take the other side for the sake of it. Ok lets try this one next: "The pope prays". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
korian
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Ok. You're absolutely right, there is no racism in Australia at all. Thats why the Aborigines are all cooped up, unemployed in the desert with govt
booze handouts and low life expectancies. I imagined it all when I was there.
As Mash has proven that Raciam doesn't exist in the enlightened hinterland of Australia, I think we have to conclude that waterbabys boyfriend was unable to find work for nearly a year, despite having satisfactory qualifications, as due to coincidence, every last interviewer he had was simply having a bad day that year.
If I'd said "there's no racism in Australia" you would have written pages on the evils of skinheads and the stolen generation. Its amazing, you make an obviously true statement on here, and people immediately take the other side for the sake of it. Ok lets try this one next: "The pope prays". |
rapier you're digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself i'm afraid. i'm not going to rebut any of your points because they are inane, asinine and embarrassing. what i do find incredible is that you claim to have a background in journalism. i guess it must have of the variety of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story?
case in point. waterbaby posted about 4 posts earlier than you so i can't imagine it was hard for you to look at the post. she said her husband was looking for work for about 2 months if that. you claimed a year....but i guess with your background in journalism you can take liberties.
and to start discussing aboriginal issues, that's a dangerous game. unless you have an intimate working knowledge of all policies and machinations going on then i would leave that one well alone. you obviously don't.
and for what it's worth, yes if you did say 'there is no racism in australia' that would be equally ridiculous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
waterbaby
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| korian wrote: |
rapier you're digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself i'm afraid. i'm not going to rebut any of your points because they are inane, asinine and embarrassing. what i do find incredible is that you claim to have a background in journalism. i guess it must have of the variety of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story?
case in point. waterbaby posted about 4 posts earlier than you so i can't imagine it was hard for you to look at the post. she said her husband was looking for work for about 2 months if that. you claimed a year....but i guess with your background in journalism you can take liberties.
|
awww, I think he's just taking the piss!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TJ
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[/quote]
Ok. You're absolutely right, there is no racism in Australia at all. Thats why the Aborigines are all cooped up, unemployed in the desert with govt
booze handouts and low life expectancies. I imagined it all when I was there.
[/quote]
I can't let you get away with that statement.
1. Aborigines are not "all cooped up" --- Australia is a free country, people of all races choose where they live.
2. There are many reasons why many aborigines are unemployed.
Firstly, many aboriginals don't want to regularly turn up for work every day. Surprise, surprise, many employers don't like that.
Secondly, some are not educated well enough to be employed in some jobs. This is not the fault of the government which does everything it can to get aboriginals to attend schools on a regular basis.
Thirdly, many aborigines are content to live on the government unemployement benefit - they don't want to work.
Fourthly, Aborigines receive more benefits and assistance from the government than white people do.
3. The government does not give them 'booze handouts'. Many aborigines choose to spend their unemployment and other government assistance on booze. When the government tried to improve conditions by giving food vouchers instead of cash the "Do-Gooders" accused the government of being paternalistic or infringing on aboriginals rights.
4. Some remote aboriginal communities have instigated their own "no booze" areas in an attempt to curb alcoholism. Even then some "Do-Gooders" tried to have this action banned on the grounds that individual rights were being infringed upon.
5. Yes, aboriginal life expectancies are far too low. However, this is a result of their lifestyle. The government is working hard to correct this. For example, recently, the government tried to introduce a system whereby aboriginal parents would be paid if their children washed every day. Again the "Do-Gooders" interfered. Gee, I wish someone would pay me each time my children took a shower.
6. Did you know that (white) teachers and medical staff in some isolated communities have to live in security compounds for protection from some of the aborigines they are helping?
I could go on and on about this topic but I'm sure some readers are becoming bored by now. But, I will say .......... please don't believe all that you read about Australia - especially when it comes from someone from someone who says "when I was there". I haven't just visited Australia, I have lived in Australia for over 50 years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TJ
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:12 pm Post subject: No response |
|
|
| rapier wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
| waterbaby wrote: |
What I found most distressing about this job hunting experience is that people don't even send a "thanks but no thanks" letter or email or phone call to acknowledge his application. |
That is one thing that s**ts me about korea, many employers/recruiters won't contact you if you don't get the job. Sad to see the same is happening in the motherland. manners are becoming non existant it seems |
Its not manners. Its racism.
In australia its because wb's b.f is asian.
in Korea its because you're white.
Don't try and twist it mashmellow. |
It's not racism, it's just plain bad manners
I'm white and I have frequently not received an acknowledgement when I have applied for jobs in Australia.
The same has happened to me when I have applied for jobs in Korea seeking a Native English Speaker. That means they expect a white person - so it's not racism when they don't reply to me.
I'll say again, it's just bad manners. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
korian
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sadly in this day and age the 'racist' tag gets thrown about far far far too easily. it's usually not warranted nor even fitting yet the person/people accused is/are then often unfairly stigmatised. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dharma bum
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| A lot of people have mentioned experiences with jobs, etc., but what about socially? Has it been difficult for them to adjust? How have people's friends at home reacted to their partners' differences in culture and perhaps language ability? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
