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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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depends........ as other posters have said, if the students are at a high enough level that we can actually hold a conversation with them IN ENGLISH, then we can do some good.
If however, we are stuck in a room with a bunch of screaming brats whose only aim in life is, "ddong chim king", with little or no resources, no support and only constant complaints that the little darlings aren't learning............. |
I think that some waygug-in makes an interesting point that gets lost in an avalanche of why he feels we have a rough time of it here (not that I'm saying he's wrong about this).
I think that we have the potential to be an indispensable resource here. Without any special training whatsoever, each and every one of us comes over here with a virtually perfect grasp of grammar, an encyclopedic knowledge of Western culture, a mountain of idioms and expressions, perfect prononciation (and whether hogwon bosses realize it or not, the variety of accents that wash upon these shores is an asset, not a liability), and an ocean of vocabulary.
Korean hogwon bosses are smart enough to realize the value of this and pay more to bring us here. The parents and adult students who pay for our students also recognize the value of this, and therefore are willing to pay more for hogwon classes which include a native speaker.
The problem is that this isn't enough. The English is there, but the teaching skills often are not. Unfortunately, virtually no hogwon owner is willing to invest the time or money into paid training for their teachers, or reimburse them for taking the initiative to get better training on their own with higher salaries.
And yes, I know that some teachers do come over here with teaching qualifications, or get them on their own after teaching here. But how many of you are paid better for this than other teachers without qualifications beyond the bare minimum of a BA in anything?
Instead, the potential is wasted in kiddie hogwons all over the republic where promises of paid training are broken, and untrained native speakers are tossed into a room with twelve children and a textbook and told to simply "teach". |
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harixseldon
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Anseong
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
Instead, the potential is wasted in kiddie hogwons all over the republic where promises of paid training are broken, and untrained native speakers are tossed into a room with twelve children and a textbook and told to simply "teach". |
Well let me pose a question to you then. Let's say I have a masters in Education, tons of training and tons of experience, how is that going to help when put in a classroom full of kids that understand only the most basic English, won't listen to me to me because I can't yell at them in Korean, don't feel like learning English and are here only because they're forced too.
Now maybe I would be able to implement my knowledge of English towards teaching better if I had an education degree and a lot of experience, but I think in the long run I still would run into the same obstacles I am right now. I have voluteered while in high school and college tutoring kids in ESL back in the US, the kids there actually wanted to learn because they needed to know English to live unlike the kids here. I think in the long run it boils down to desire. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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worth the money? I could say this about many people in the world doing all kinds of work.. is cameron diaz worth 20 million dollars a movie?
was my bar manager worth more than me, just becuase she was sucking the dick of my the owner but didnt know a thing about bar?
I think you all get the idea.. who is worth what!
and frankly speaking hahhaha ( when ever I say that I feel like a korean)
but yeah, 2 million won a month is that really big money? PLEEEAASSEE!
you can make more money waiting tables back home!! |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| harixseldon wrote: |
| Son Deureo! wrote: |
Instead, the potential is wasted in kiddie hogwons all over the republic where promises of paid training are broken, and untrained native speakers are tossed into a room with twelve children and a textbook and told to simply "teach". |
Well let me pose a question to you then. Let's say I have a masters in Education, tons of training and tons of experience, how is that going to help when put in a classroom full of kids that understand only the most basic English, won't listen to me to me because I can't yell at them in Korean, don't feel like learning English and are here only because they're forced too.
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Good question. If these are your qualifications, then putting you into that classroom probably isn't the most efficient use of you. First off, rank beginner children probably don't even belong in a class with a native teacher, IMHO. It's usually a big fat waste of time. Students benefit more from a native speaker at higher levels.
But if you are stuck in that (all-too-common) situation, you need support for discipline/crowd control. At the very least, the school needs a decent discipline policy in place in order to make it possible for you to do your job, and be prepared to back you up when you enforce it. Most hogwons don't seem to bother with this. This leaves a lot of kiddie hogwon teachers as little more than babysitters/exotic zoo animals for the children's entertainment. And expensive ones at that.
But since it seems to be what so many parents want, who am I to say they're not getting their money's worth? |
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harixseldon
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Anseong
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo wrote: |
Good question. If these are your qualifications, then putting you into that classroom probably isn't the most efficient use of you. First off, rank beginner children probably don't even belong in a class with a native teacher, IMHO. It's usually a big fat waste of time. Students benefit more from a native speaker at higher levels. |
I actually was making a hypothetically statment since I don't have those qualifications but I was just using hyperbole provide a viewpoint outside your's, which I precieved to be, that teachers here lack the abilities while I feel that a lot of the problems may be instead the working situation.
Like you said, a lot of the time I'm an expensive babysitter while I could be teaching a lot to these kids (and to some I am so I guess I'm worth the money to some parents). |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| harixseldon wrote: |
I actually was making a hypothetically statment since I don't have those qualifications but I was just using hyperbole provide a viewpoint outside your's, which I precieved to be, that teachers here lack the abilities while I feel that a lot of the problems may be instead the working situation.
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I assumed you were speaking hypothetically, and perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Lack of support in many ways leads to our potential being wasted. Instead, hogwon owners treat us like overpaid babysitters, so that's usually all they get. |
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harixseldon
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Anseong
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
I assumed you were speaking hypothetically, and perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Lack of support in many ways leads to our potential being wasted. Instead, hogwon owners treat us like overpaid babysitters, so that's usually all they get. |
Ah ok. I agree. But what do I know, I just got fired. Hah |
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turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| harixseldon wrote: |
| Son Deureo! wrote: |
I assumed you were speaking hypothetically, and perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Lack of support in many ways leads to our potential being wasted. Instead, hogwon owners treat us like overpaid babysitters, so that's usually all they get. |
Ah ok. I agree. But what do I know, I just got fired. Hah |
I hear MacDonalds is hiring, but you need to speak Korean... 
Seriously though, sucks if you really did get sacked...what's the plan? |
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harixseldon
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Anseong
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| turtlepi1 wrote: |
I hear MacDonalds is hiring, but you need to speak Korean... |
Hm I'd need to learn Korean....
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| Seriously though, sucks if you really did get sacked...what's the plan? |
Well I'm talking to my boss in a little bit. And I'm pretty sure I got fired but they lined me up a job in Seoul. Best case scenario: everything works out and I teach in Seoul. Worst case scenario: I go back home real soon, which isn't the most horrible thing in the world. |
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Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, two million won a month isn't a great deal of money...but the free apartment is the thing that makes all the difference. The exorbitant rent back home is another reason that makes Korea so appealing. Oh, and I would much rather work less than 30 hours a week going over a few pages of Let's Go 3 than busting my ass back home as a waiter/waitress. This Korea gig is sweeeeeeet! |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe we just bring a "reality" to the place. We speak the language. (Just look at our white faces.) I guess it may be image, but a foreigner seems to make it seem more genuine. They know they can always blab at the Korean teacher in Korean. Not so for most foreigners. And if none of us were here, they could forget the outside world exists. |
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I_Am_Wrong
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: whatever
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| no...*beep* off...this is useless.....whatever |
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fidel
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| hmmm, jellyfish flapping in the breezy wind, yellow monkey hatstand. |
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Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
My question is: are we worth this trouble? Are kids learning English significantly more efficiently, if at all, because we are here teaching them? Again, I'm talking from a broad Korean perspective, not from a perspective of what a foreign teacher feels they are worth, or what any specific teacher actually provides. |
I interpretted your question as an "I" instead of a "we" for a reason. In my two years here I've obsereved the classes of 3 FT and no Korean staff, and I don't have the skills to pass judgement on how effective they were. I've had nobody with those skills in my classroom. I'd actually kind of like if that happened.
To answer your question: I have no idea. And, I suspect, neither does anyone else. |
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