Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Mody Ba]

Ok...first..

1.Yes,it is better than most hakwons.But that is not much of a recommendation,since almost anything is better than working at a hakwon.This is akin to saying having a broken finger is "better" than having a broken arm.

2.No,it is not all "bad".Some people get decent assignments,although this is usually just a matter of chance.On the other hand,some people get horrid assignments.

3.No,I am not"anti Korea",or anything like that.True,there are problems here,but there are problems everywhere,including plenty in my home country.

4.However,the EPIK program is NOT Korea.On the whole(with some caveats)...I like Korea.English teaching in Korea(including the scapegrace EPIK program) is an anomaly and should NOT be taken as a typical representation of Korea.


Basic problems with EPIK:
1.They bring many people to Korea who are not qualified amd who should not have been allowed into the program in the first place.There are many horror stories about some of the "teachers" they have let into the program.This is not the place to go into detail...but they DID happen...although many would strain the credulity of people unfamiliar with the EPIK program.EPIK has never screened adequately.

2.After they bring people over who are often unqualified,they act amazed that some of these same people are not really teachers and sometimes get into various kinds of trouble.However,since EPIK brought them over in the first place,it really goes back to EPIK,although they like to whine about the "foreign teachers".It is always easier to blame someone else.

3.There is no standardization and no central EPIK to facilitate matters.After orientation,people are more or less cut loose and go to their schools.Different Korean bureaucrats in different provinces interpret the contract differently.Some people get decent asignments..some get nightmares.

4.The people who put you through orientation do not want to hear your problems after you leave orientation,even if you cannot solve your problems at the local level...the people at EPIK(the training center) will tell you they can't help you.

5.There are at least some anti-foreigner biases present among some Korean bureaucrats...they resent teachers simply because they are foreigners.There is also some resentment because EPIKS get free housing(although sometimes the housing is deplorable).There is some resentment from some Korean teachers because they see EPIKs as lazy(some EPIKs ARE lazy...but again..it goes back to the fact EPIK did not screen and brought them over in the first place)

6.I am not saying ALL Korean teachers and officials are that way...only some..but the ones that do have biases can really make life miserable for you.Some of the teachers(and even a few of the management) are very nice people indeed.Let's be fair.

7.I am well aware that some people will try to defend this program.Of course,management will try to defend it.After all,it is their bread and butter.Also,some folks get decent assignments and want to know what other people are whining and caterwauling about.If they could see some of the horrid housing(I have) some of their colleagues are stuck with and knew some of the problems their colleagues are encountering and knew the history of the EPIK(formerly KORETTA) program like I do,I think they would have a better appreciation of why some people are complaining.

8.Lastly.I suggest that anyone do your research carefully before you sign up for this program.I am not even saying you have to believe everything I say(although I have no reason to lie).Just do yourself a really big favor and research this program (EPIK) carefully before you sign with them.Better safe than sorry. Of course,EPIK mangement will try to present everything as rosy and wonderful.After all,they are having trouble recruiting people,because over the years,the program's rep has spread.Now they are reduced to taking more or less just warm bodies.

[Squaffy]

See? - more trolling? hence the need for a separate trolly forum.

Just another disgruntled teacher having a gripe about EPIK - oh, sobs, woe is me. Tough. Go get another job then. Not good form to openly diss a school when other foreign teachers are there too, enjoying it and not complaining.

[Mody Ba]

Of course,I might be mistaken,but I do have a feeling both "Squaffy" and "flutieflakes"(What names!) are EPIK management cruising the forum...or management fellow travelers.Of course,I do not KNOW this.But it seems a distinct possibility.

However,both "Squaffy" and "flutieflakes" are entitled to their opinions.However,because "Squaffy' does not agree with me.he dismisses me as a "troll'Always the easy route...if you disagree with someone call him or her a name.I disagree with him/her too,but notice...i am not calling him/her a "troll' or anything else.Well,I said they might be EPIK management...but that does not REALLY count as an insult,i guess.

As for people "enjoying" EPIK...sure, I agree SOME are...a lot are not.I alluded to that in my first post.

As to "Squaffy's" suggestion...that I "get another job". Boy,that sure sounds like a management line to me.How does "Squaffy" even know I am working for EPIK right now?

This is an old,old line..."if you don't like it,quit"...if you don't like it leave the country"How original!" Flash! Iam not packing my bags right now!

And maybe "Squaffy" is so experienced he or she does not know a good job from a bad job...and actually thinks EPIK is "good" How pathetic.Really,however,sounds like mangement or a fellow traveler to me.Some will try to defend it,even though it is largely indefensible.However,'have fun'...and "enjpy" your time with EPIK. And if people could see some of the so-called "teachers" EPIK brings in(for many EPIK is probably the bEST job they have ever had Good Lord!! )

[Mody Ba]

I didn't proof it well enough first.But don't try to use them as an excuse to defend that Morass(EPIK).Hope you enjoy your time with them.Ignorance is bliss,right?

[Squaffy]

Yeah - big brother is watching you - take care

[Squaffy]

Apologies - just got told off by a certain mod. Must tone down my use of rude words. No offence meant at all. Just me.

[Mody Ba]

Really,I doubt if EPIK is that organized.Organization....has never been one of their strong points.Your avatar...is that a ...squirrel?(?????)

[jamesH]

There is also a rather comprehensive EPIK discussion on page 2 = Screwball Epik,,, it would be good if the two topics could be 'merged.'

[schwa]

Mody Ba's criticisms of epik are valid -- he puts his finger quite accurately on some of the darker aspects of the program. He also takes care to qualify his statements -- the program is not all bad for all participants. The truth of epik of course lies somewhere in the middle between the "it sucks" & the "it's great" contingents.

Recruits going into the program need to know what they're getting into, & be armed for the worst. Bureaucracies the world over are prone to politicking & arrant stupidity. Add in cultural differences & you've got quite a daunting situation for a newcomer, especially if they have little worldly experience. Every placement is rife with potential for mutual misunderstanding, frustration, & bitterness. Not a bed of roses & no one to lead you by the hand. But if you go in with your eyes open, some self-confidence, & a reasonable allotment of smarts, you can make it work for yourself. Quite a few have done so.

The point about unqualified & unsuitable recruits is well taken. Such 'teachers' have done a lot of damage on the local level to the reputation of epik teachers generally. If a newcomer has the misfortune to follow a bad apple, they might well encounter coolness, suspicion, even open dislike. Thats a tough starting point. In some ways, sometimes, the program primes itself for failure.

Epik is a complex beast. Every province, every district, every school offers up something different, & the problem with the debates on this forum is that most of the posters extrapolate their own experience across the program as a whole. I'm reminded of that story of the blind guys describing an elephant.

(If Squaffy's inane remarks in this thread represent the defenders of the program, god help us all.)

[Mody Ba]

Seriously,if "Squaffy" enjoys "teaching"with EPIK,I am glad.At least someone is getting something good out of it.Or at least "Squaffy" thinks he is enjoying it.

But just to give you an idea of what kind of "teacher" Squaffy might be...and also on my point of what kind of "teachers" some of the people brought over by EPIK are...I suggest you check out the thread"How to Wash a Cat'...on the Korean Off-Topics Forum.I think you might get a very good idea of what I am talking about.....a Schwa says...if these are the kind of people defending EPIK...Good Lord...EPIK is in even worse trouble than I thought...

[Anda]

Having done eight years in country and over half working for public schools I think I can sum up the main problem that are different if you work for EPIK. It's that you have to get on with your assigned Korean co-teachers. I'd say that about 20% will be anti against working with or having a foreign teacher at their school.
The next thing is again co-teaher related. It's us, as it takes time to learn to work with Korean co-teachers. If you look on them the same way that you would another foreign teacher then you will get on a lot better. Don't try to teach English to them unless asked and just ignore their problems with English when they make them.
Some Education offices get your co-teacher to send in a monthly report on you. This is not shown to you. So you have no way of defending yourself if you have a lying co-teacher who makes up stories, like the one that I got stuck with in Kwangju. She caused real trouble for me before I traced the problem. I had good luck with co-teachers for the first two years in the program and mixed luck for the last two and a half years.
The rest of the problems are rather minor compared to the co-teacher problem. Not many have problems with the accommodation supplied. Wage problems are usually related to being offered one pay level in your home country only to have the EPIK office try to drop you a level on arrival. I think this has stopped but I'm not sure. There has been a lot of dishonesty shown generally over the years in the program but most of this has stopped. Honesty but, is in short supply throughout the ESL industry here in Korea.
I don't defend EPIK as being without fault but I think it is good to see it on par with universities and hogwans in relation to the problems that you can expect.

[The Lemon]

[Mody Ba]

I knew when I threw the original post up there...we would hear from Anda quickly..that is good.He has some good comments.I have been in Korea for a long time ,too.Not as long as Anda,but almost.

Anda,i think you might agree with me that problems differ across the board...again this is the horrible lack of standardization.You mention problems with coteachers as being a major concern.Well,maybe for you and some others,they are.That has never been a problem for me.i get along with the teachers and even the admin at my school very well.Of course,other people in EPIK have different situations.You cannot represent your experiences as being typical.I do not pretend to represent mine as typical,either.
Housing has been a BIG problem for some EPIKS. Maybe not for you and some EPIKS...but for some people it has, definitely.

I have never had problems with the people(teachers,admin,etc) at my school.Again,that is my experience and I do not pretend to represent it as typical.I have had more problems with the provincial and other (Office of ED.) bureaucrats.Arrogant...often resentful of foreigners...always willing to interpret the contract to their advantage...but when they breach it ...the contract is suddenly "Not so important".

And the Central EPIK admin(Yes,I know there really is no CENTRAL admin...but you know who I am talking about...those people at KNUE)....Good Lord! Arrogant...not willing to help...they are also a real problem.
So,Anda,I think you should be careful about making generalizations about EPIK and representing them as typical,because I think they only represent your experiences...not everyone's.One thing you can say about EPIK...it varies wildly...from placement tp placement...housing...yu name it.Just no standardization...precious little organization at all.But are we really surprised?What kind of "experts" do they have running it anyway?How much do they know about English?Or running a program the way it should be run? And they are always saying they are"improving" it. really?I do not think so.That is my opinion.

[flutieflakes]

anda, i have to say that i do agree with you in some ways....sure EPIK has its problems but they are fairly minor compared to some of the others that you hear about at hagwons and at the university level...as for you mody ba, have you never seen some of the wierdos that are hired at hagwons and at the university level??????...to assume that they have all been confined to epik is absurd....sure there are soem strange birds out there, but as you should know this country is filled with them...oh, and i do believe that leaving is indeed a valid option if one is too unhappy....no one is holding a gun to your head asking you to stay...if you were back home and job conditions were as bad as some people here claim, would you stay?????????? exactly..........

[Anda]

I can't understand how anybody can have problems with with an education office and EPIK at KNUE if they are geting along at their post.
It is true that EPIK at KNUE wipe their hands of you after you have finished the induction course. Nobody has ever got any major help from them as far as I know. The Korean EPIK supervisor at your Education office normally isn't an English major / teacher. There are usually about six at each education office that take turns as the EPIK supervisor for the city or provience. Each month there is a general meeting of all the current EPIK supervisors where the program is debated on. But considering that the supervisors work as office management staff, not a lot can be expected of then in reguard to English education but, that after all is what we should have been employed to do. But as the contract is written we are in fact employed to assist our Korean co-worker as they are in charge of us, not we of them.
Most posts usually end up wanting us to teach by ourselves but every so often the EPIK supervisors insist that our Korean co-teachers are to co-teach with us or at least be in the classroom.
At present I sign an EPIK contract but I don't come under either an EPIK supervisor or EPIK at KNUE but I find this great. This year 400 jobs are supposed to be becoming open under this system so if you have problems as you say then you'll be able to employ direct to a school but they will still receive your wages fom the education office.
In reguard to accommodation I'd say that no more than 5% of EPIKS get offered a bad deal but most refuse to accept what is offered and something is sorted out. You can also opt for 300,000 won a month and find your own.