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| Do you agree with decision? |
| 1. Yes |
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9% |
[ 1 ] |
| 2. No |
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27% |
[ 3 ] |
| 3. Yes, but the sentence is too lenient. |
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9% |
[ 1 ] |
| 4. Yes, but the sentence is too harsh. |
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36% |
[ 4 ] |
| 5. Yes, and the stair construction co. is responsible too. |
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18% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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| Author |
Message |
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: Accidental Death of Customer? Do you agree? |
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Bar Manager Sentenced Over Accidental Death of Customer
The Seoul Central District Court on Tuesday sentenced a 29-year-old basement bar manager to one year in prison, three years probation and 480 hours of community service for failing to properly assist a drunk customer who died falling down the stairs leading to the bar. The court found the bar manager had enticed the 35-year-old victim into his bar in August 2003, where a hostess plied the victim with three bottles of imported spirit. The victim paid the W1.24 million bill with his credit card, and the manager helped him as far as the fourth step up the 16-step flight of stairs leading out of the bar before turning back to fetch his business card for the victim. Left to his own devices, the victim lost his balance and fell. He died of severe head injuries.
The court ruled that the bar's stairs were dangerously steep and presented a real danger to inebriated customers. It said the manager, who had been working at the bar for six months, knew this and failed in his duty of care to the customer.
by Geum Won-seop, Chosun Ilbo (January 11, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200501/200501110022.html |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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If I didn't know better I'd say a North American style victim mentality is taking over--no one takes responsibility for their own actions anymore. It's a dumb judgement for Korea but a drop in the bucket compared to the legal stupidity going on back home.
"Enticed"..."plied"...poor devil never had a chance...  |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Cthulhu,
Please be careful. You and I are dangerously close to agreeing on something.
"Enticed"..."plied"...poor devil never had a chance... |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Don't check out my response to your article in the other thread. |
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peemil
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Location: Koowoompa
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the stairs they've got are downright vertical though in this country. Not as bad as Amsterdam. (Why is a place that has access to every mind altering substance also the one place where ingesting such substances can lead to falling down a vertical "leg breaker" staircase?)
There is a pub"ish" sort of place I hang around sometimes and the staircase can be a little tricky after a good couple of beers. Good only knows what it is like after three bottles of whiskey.
Last edited by peemil on Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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If there are several business in the city with extremely steep stairs, then can the bar manager be held responsible for an accident? Perhaps, construction companies or some government agency should be held responsible. Are the safety (or building) codes sufficient. If there are some appropriate codes, are the codes followed?
I have seen some stairs that only a mountain goat could safely climb? |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Accidental Death of Customer? Do you agree? |
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| Real Reality wrote: |
Bar Manager Sentenced Over Accidental Death of Customer
The Seoul Central District Court on Tuesday sentenced a 29-year-old basement bar manager to one year in prison, three years probation and 480 hours of community service for failing to properly assist a drunk customer who died falling down the stairs leading to the bar. The court found the bar manager had enticed the 35-year-old victim into his bar in August 2003, where a hostess plied the victim with three bottles of imported spirit. The victim paid the W1.24 million bill with his credit card, and the manager helped him as far as the fourth step up the 16-step flight of stairs leading out of the bar before turning back to fetch his business card for the victim. Left to his own devices, the victim lost his balance and fell. He died of severe head injuries.
The court ruled that the bar's stairs were dangerously steep and presented a real danger to inebriated customers. It said the manager, who had been working at the bar for six months, knew this and failed in his duty of care to the customer.
by Geum Won-seop, Chosun Ilbo (January 11, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200501/200501110022.html |
I went for No. Several reasons:
1. Was the person charged the owner? If not, there could be a civil case in tort - unless, and it is a big unless, - it was not his first visit.
2. If the person charged was an employee presumably it was a criminal offence he was charged with: mansulaghter or equivalent I suppose. For that to apply and stick, the burden of proof is quite high, much higher than for a civil case for damages under law of tort.
What did he - the bar manager - specifically do that caused the customer's death?
3. Causation. The assumption must be that the original act of enticement followed by plying of drinks and then not helping him up the stairs led to the man's death. But did it? If that causation cannot be proven, then the case fails.
Conisder: had he not been enticed in but simply walked in, then bought girls drinks and walked up the stairs on his own and fell, would that have been manslaughter?
I think not. |
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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| was there any evidence of a fan being on all night in the bar? |
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chiaa
Joined: 23 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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There is a reason why the sidewalks and stairs back home are all built well. People are afraid of being sued. I think this is the right step for Korea. Could you imagine what would happen if the city did not properly remove snow from the sidewalk? What would have happen is every stair had a different rise?
It HAS gotten crazy back home with some of the law suits. But if it wasn't for these lawsuits, what would the safety measures be for the common person? Having these suits and safety measures is one of the many ways that a third world country is seperated from "advanced" nations.
I bet the rat bastard fixes his stairs now. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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The frantic instinct to go for the namecard to a departing customer (especially one that just dropped 1.24mil Won) supersedes the safety and well-being of that customer.  |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| chiaa wrote: |
There is a reason why the sidewalks and stairs back home are all built well. People are afraid of being sued. I think this is the right step for Korea. Could you imagine what would happen if the city did not properly remove snow from the sidewalk? What would have happen is every stair had a different rise?
It HAS gotten crazy back home with some of the law suits. But if it wasn't for these lawsuits, what would the safety measures be for the common person? Having these suits and safety measures is one of the many ways that a third world country is seperated from "advanced" nations. |
Kudos to chiaa for talking sense and dissenting from the anit-litigation concensus. I used to argue the other side pretty often, that insurance companies back home have become an extra unelected governmental regulatory body, since it is their opinion that is listened to almost exclusively in all manner of things these days.
That was before I came to Korea.
There's a lot of stuff here that just isn't safe to be around. I try not to mention them to the folks back home cuz they're nervous enough, me bein' so close to the DMZ and all. |
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