Korean Job Discussion Forums

[mack the knife]

**This is an off-shoot of a thread which has since gone the way of the dodo bird**

Why ignorance may be used as a defence:

A)
Quote:
The established practice now is to treat the ignorantia maxim as a rule of law rather than a guiding principle of law.

But wait....

B)
Quote:
As [Justice] O'Connor states, while the ignorantia principle is generally assumed it is, however, surprising that there seems to be no cases either directly establishing the rule or unreservedly accepting it.

C)
Quote:
A simple illustration would be when a foreigner commits an offence without knowing it was unlawful and pleads ignorance of law in defence. Punishment of the offender would not be in the interest of the community because the community is well aware that the act is unlawful by domestic standards and therefore such punishment would not serve an educative purpose.

D)
Quote:
...ignorance or mistake of fact is a recognized defence in criminal law. This principle has been judicially accepted since the seventeenth century.

In England, anyway...

E)
Quote:
...unless reasonable steps had been taken to bring its purport to the notice of those affected...ignorance of a non-published statutory instrument is a defence.

Therefore, if there is no simple way for me to physically see/have easy access to THE LAW I can rightfully claim ignorance (doesn't mean I'll win, naturally). For instance, pretend I'm a migrant worker with no access to computers, and I have no time to visit the immigration offices in MOK-DONG because I live in BOSHINTANG-DONG and work 20 hour shifts. I cannot reasonably be expected to be "up to date" with every little change made in Korean immigration law. My boss is certainly not going to do the gentlemanly thing and keep me up to date.

F)
Quote:
The inability of American jurists and commentators to agree on a single rationale for the maxim has not precluded its application in the United States, but it may help to explain the growing number of cases that have departed from the maxim over time.

Very important word there, GROWING.

G)
Quote:
In short, although many consider the maxim to be the dominant rule, recent case law suggests that, even if this is true for now, it may not be for long, particularly in prosecutions brought under statutes containing language of willfulness.

Game. Set. Match. Willfulness. Did I purposefully and willingly choose to ignore a law. Or was I simply ignorant of said law since I had no [feasible] means of access to it.

So, what it all comes down to, and what has been argued time and time again, is the virtual impossibility of being entirely ignorant of the laws of a particular society. However, a person residing in a foreign country cannot reasonably be expected to know all or even most of the finer points of law which members of any given society learn simply by proxy, and therefore cannot be held accountable for all of the same crimes that a native might commit, willfully or otherwise.
_________________
Seek freedom and become captive to your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.

Herbert (1920-1986)

[Wangja]

If you really feel aggireved (and I find it hard to believe that an eductaed person would so feel in such circumstances) then do feel free to bring an action under English or American law protetsing your innocence becuase you are a foreigner in Korea.

I await the outcome with bated breath.

BTW, the acid test according to your criterion E fails. It is easy to find the relevant laws and regulatins and any reasonable person would be expected to know that a change of address should be notified to the authorities. That is basic, and even in your own country - although it may not be an offence there - one would be expected to do it.

[mithridates]

Back to my question right before the thread got axed: was it the guy with the slightly weird voice?

[mack the knife]

[mack the knife]

[matko]

200,0000-500,000 thousand won fine for failing to report your address change within 14 days is despicable.

Imagine if it were some poor idiot from a third world country who works for peanuts to begin with. How can s/he afford that? What if they have a family?

Disgusting.

[Wangja]

So, if a Korean or Mexican or whatever fails to report his change of address to INS in USA and is fined, that's wrong too?

[mack the knife]

[phaedrus]

[Wangja]

[Wangja]

And in response to the earlier question

[mindmetoo]

[mindmetoo]

[mack the knife]

Wrong, wrong, wrong...

You guys are so far off the mark.

First of all, in case you haven't read any of my other 6,492 posts on ESL cafe, I'm an undisputed champion of hyperbole.

Second, I already said in another post dealing with this topic (perhaps the one which was deleted?) that I had a total Jimmy Stewart attitude going into immigration. Unless you've been living under a rock at the bottom of the ocean for the past 100 years, you must know who Jimmy Stewart was.

Third, if all of your synapses were firing, you might actually comprehend the sentences I've written, instead of simply putting quotation marks around them and attacking them piecemeal. Which part of "As far as you or I know" do you not understand?

Fourth, let's stay on subject, shall we? We're talking about Korean immigration here, not U.S. or Kenyan or Foozballian immigration, which is why I wrote "I can't give you an answer". At what point does the "Duh?" factor set in? So, every post after my last post is tripe, because you missed the friggin' point. Big-time.

[kprrok]

Aliens in America only have 10 days to register their move, so the Koreans are actually being nice by giving you those extra four days!
http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/chng_address.htm