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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Dogbert, you notice how The Bobster don't live there no more?
It has been illegal for several years in California to smoke even in your own home if you need to call a TV repairman to come over.
Yeah. In your own home.
See what I mean about it being like religion for people?
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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I was wondering if that played some part in your choice of abode 
Funny how time was San Francisco was considered America's most liberal/libertarian city. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Outside the airport terminal too? |
SFO is actually outside the city limits. South San Francisco is a sepatate Municipality, and I think that has jurisdiction, though God knows it may be zoned in such a way as to be a law unto itself ... |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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I have an Aunt whom I love very much and she smokes heavily. Now, with her heavy smoking, I anticipate that she is going to die earlier than most non-smokers do, and I'm ready for that, it's her call, her life, and she has no obligations to be alive for longer, just to make me and her other relatives and friends happy.
But something about her still bothers me, and that is that she talks about the things she wants to do in the future, as if she's going to live forever, yet she wheezes after a walk up the stairs. I anticipate, that when the grim reaper starts beckoning her, with cancer, emphesema, or she needs amputations, whatever, it's still going to be a shock to her. And that makes me angry with her, because I thought that she would understand, that when you smoke, you are making a trade-off, a piece of your life, for the right to smoke. She wants both, and not many get that, Johnny Carson, is one of the few lucky ones.
So, you say to relatives, and people you love, 'don't come crying to me when you're dying' but you know that's your duty as a loved one or a friend, and it makes me angry when people have the chance to stop.
I've only recently stopped smoking, and stopped in the realization that I wasn't enjoying it, I was feeding an addiction, that's all, and was tired of waking up with a sore throat. That said, if I were a bit more like Swiss James I wouldn't have quit, I don't think I'd have needed to. One doesn't meet that many people that can only smoke when they have a pint though, and there's always the risk that the addiction will catch up with you. Besides which, too many people fool themselves that they can cut down to 'I'll just smoke two a day'. Yeah, you've all heard that one before  .
I don't like whining about passive smoking, I think the dangers are grossly exaggerated. Anyone who lives in Seoul or any major city breathes in all number of vile fumes, including carbon monoxide from cars. I'd rather see people use public transport more, than stop smoking. If you moan about being a passive smoker, yet drive to work when you could get the train or the bus, then you're a bit of a hypocrite.
People who want others to quit do so probably for several reasons, but probably one of the biggest is hatred of the tobacco companies. I despise tobacco companies, they are truly evil and despicable organizations. They build interest in their drugs by giving out freebies (expecially here in Korea, the British American Tobacco company give out free cigarettes at fashionable events) just like heroin dealers do, same marketing principles. They don't deserve one penny of my money, not a penny. They aim their products at children.
Sorry about rambling. |
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Confused Canadian
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Swiss James wrote: |
Your suggestion is that I read the book, quit, then if I decide that I don't enjoy quitting, you'll pay some penalty. It's intriguing I suppose but if I don't enjoy quitting, if I feel deprived, I'll just smoke again.
So who wins there? |
Well, this is a wager. You choose the penalty, and if I lose the wager, you get the reward, and you get to continue smoking. From my point of view, it seems like a win-win situation. What do you have to lose? Two or three weeks of not smoking? Apparently you go several days at a time without smoking, so it shouldn��t be a big deal. It��s a wager. Accept it or don��t. I made you an offer and you have every right to refuse it��something you��ve yet to do.
Bobster,
You��ve missed my point on so many levels, I don��t even know where to start.
First of all, when I said, ��I quit smoking, and I wish all smokers would quit.��, it was in ��Can��t we all just get along?�� sentiment, not a holier than thou attitude. You chose to put that slant on it. I tried to explain where I was attempting to come from, but you chose to ignore that.
The reason I mentioned you by name is that both you and Swiss James claimed to enjoy smoking. This, I think, is where I come across as preachy (and I completely understand why) however, I regret to inform you, but you don��t. I know you don��t believe me, but you don��t. You enjoy relieving the withdrawal symptoms, but you don��t actually enjoy smoking. Did you enjoy the first cigarette you ever had? I mean, did you enjoy it with the love you claim to feel from smoking now? I doubt it. You had to teach yourself to like it so that you could relieve those withdrawal pangs. Remember, I was a smoker, and thus, I��m speaking from experience. When I was a smoker, I also swore that I enjoyed smoking, and that certain cigarettes (i.e. the after dinner smoke, or the one with my coffee in the morning) were ��to die�� for. I couldn��t imagine a life without them. I made many of the same arguments that you and Swiss James have made. I now know they were fallacious arguments. I always joked that if I ever quit smoking, I��d have to quit eating, because a meal wasn��t complete without a cigarette after it. Well, guess what? I quit smoking, but I��m still eating. Many of the reviews I��ve read on this book have a line similar to ��I wish I had read this book earlier!��. You��ll notice I myself said this. When/If you ever read this book, I��m quite certain you��ll utter something similar. I'm hoping that by informing other of this book and encouraging people to read it, there will be fewer people lamenting the fact that they had to wait so long to find this book.
As for being rude��
I��m engaging in a discussion, or at least I thought I was. Apparently, you are entitled to an opinion, but I am welcome to keep mine to myself. As I stated earlier, I don��t care when smokers smoke around me. They can blow smoke in my face if they so wish. Doesn��t bother me in the least. But don��t be fooled��I don��t enjoy inhaling that smoke either. I never will again. I��m just happy to be able to say that. I mentioned you by name because both you and Swiss James made points I disagree with, and I thought this was a discussion board and that I was entitled to discuss my opinions.
| The Bobster wrote: |
| It's not complicated. Whatever health detriments are well-known by now, and even in Korea the methods and routes available to those who want to quit are well known and easy to find. You don't need to do this. |
This is the main reason I��m engaging in this ��discussion��. I do need to do this. Ninety-nine percent of the methods and routes out there are doomed to failure. The ones that do work often leave the former addict addicted to something else. This book doesn��t. It explains why methods such as the patch, nicotine gum, the ��Willpower Method��, or weaning oneself off cigarettes are all flawed. Of course, there are people that quit using many different methods. Some of them are successful, yet still crave cigarettes every day of their lives. Some still crave the occasional cigarette. As I mentioned before, years ago, I quit for over 4 months using the ��willpower method��. All the nicotine was gone from my system, I had broken the habit and the associations I had with smoking. But, one puff on a cigarette had me back to a pack-a-day smoker the next day. However, after reading this book, I know that will never happen again. For example, if I were to smoke a cigarette, or a pack for that matter, because I lost a bet, I know that I wouldn��t continue to smoke. That��s why I��m doing this. This book is different. If also helped me understand why a previous attempt to wean myself off cigarettes (I was down to 5 a day) failed. All my coworkers were so glad when I started smoking again. I was much nicer to be around. However, when I quit after reading this book, no one noticed. I had to tell people that I quit. No one had noticed anything different about my behavior at all. The only person that knew was my wife. I didn��t put on weight or use any kind of cigarette substitutes. I just stopped. And you can too. Anyone can. That��s the point I��m trying to make. This book is different. It��s as painless a method to quitting as I know. Allen Carr has clinics all over the world (mainly in England and Europe). These clinics boast a 90% success rate, and offer a money back guarantee. I don��t know of any other method that can boast those kinds of numbers. This is why I'm doing this...to let smokers know there is a "new" method out there, unlike any method they've tried before. It's cheap, it's effective, and it doesn't get you hooked on any other substitute or nicotine replacement therapy. You just stop smoking...that's all there is to it.
So Bobster, in conclusion, it��s regretful that you considered my comments rude. I think you know that weren��t meant that way. I tried to engage you in a ��friendly wager�� (which again, you haven��t declined). I didn��t give you an ultimatum. It is yours to accept or refuse.
If you wish to continue this "discussion" with me, then that is your right. If you don't, that is also your right. However, please don't berate me for expressing my opinions on a discussion board.
Confused Canadian |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:53 am Post subject: |
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I have never smoked a cigarette in my life and I don't intend to start. However I will say that friends of mine in Korea that smoke tell me it is much easier to smoke here as the price is so low.
If I do go to a smoking environment like a bar, I do not complain. One thing I really dislike though is smokers casually tossing their cigarette butts everywhere. I think that is disgusting. I applaud San Fransisco for it's decision.
Curious though, what are the laws and penalities in Singapore like regarding smoking? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| After quitting and restarting several times, I've come to realise the problem for me isn't the physical addiction. Its that I need a positive image of myself as a non-smoker. At the back of my mind, I still believe that smoking's cool, same as I did when itook it up as a 14 yr old. A hard perception to shift- I enjoy smoking, and think that cigarettes suit my personality and self image. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Confused Canadian wrote: |
Bobster,
You��ve missed my point on so many levels, I don��t even know where to start. |
Ditto back at ya. The basic overriding point you have missed is that I enjoy smoking and don't want your "help."
| Quote: |
| First of all, when I said, ��I quit smoking, and I wish all smokers would quit.��, it was in ��Can��t we all just get along?�� sentiment, not a holier than thou attitude. You chose to put that slant on it. I tried to explain where I was attempting to come from, but you chose to ignore that. |
Naw, man, it's there. I don't have that good an imagination. Everything you've written in this thread glows with the luminous numbus possessed by saints and those who have seen the truth and wish to make others free - whether they wish to be or not.
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| The reason I mentioned you by name is that both you and Swiss James claimed to enjoy smoking. This, I think, is where I come across as preachy (and I completely understand why) however, I regret to inform you, but you don��t. I know you don��t believe me, but you don��t. |
Do you understand that here you calling people liars or deluded for the sake of having a different experience than you? Is there any way you can justify this as other than the most extreme form of rudeness imaginable? Do you understand that if you said this to me while we were having dinner, I'd not only get up and leave the room, but probably toss a glass of water in your face on the way out? Can you imagine why I would feel no regret about it later, and rather instead wish I had done something even more demonstrative?
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| You enjoy relieving the withdrawal symptoms, but you don��t actually enjoy smoking. |
Chutzpah is the word - you claim to know what is gong on in my mind better than I or anyone else. Dream on, my friend.
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| Did you enjoy the first cigarette you ever had? |
Yeah.
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| I mean, did you enjoy it with the love you claim to feel from smoking now? |
Yeah.
Wait a minute. You didn't even wait to hear my answer ... what are you, Kreskin? Man, that's spooky!
Oh, I get it now - they weren't really sincere questions at all, were they? You knew what I was going to say and now you call me a liar or a fool. And you want to say there is no rudeness in this? You want to say this qualifies as discussion?
Well, you sir are an ass - a rude, arroggant, sanctimonious and smug one at that.
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| You had to teach yourself to like it so that you could relieve those withdrawal pangs. Remember, I was a smoker, and thus, I��m speaking from experience. When I was a smoker... |
{I was a sinner and now I sin no more. I know everything about what you feel because we are the same but now I have seen the error of my terrible past and I do so hope to bring you into the blessed realm of forgiveness and beauty and pure good. You too can be washed in the purifying blood of the Lamb ... }
Honestly, CC, can you REALLY not see that what you are doing here is so far beyond mere "preachy" it's completely off the scale?
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As for being rude��
I��m engaging in a discussion, or at least I thought I was. |
You thought wrong. You are not discussing at all. You are trying to convert. Discussion happens when people listen to each other and are willing to accept that the experience the other person relates is their honest perception of what they see in the world - you have accused people who feel and see things differently as being deluded or dishonest.
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Apparently, you are entitled to an opinion, but I am welcome to keep mine to myself ... I mentioned you by name because both you and Swiss James made points I disagree with, and I thought this was a discussion board and that I was entitled to discuss my opinions.
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I didn't notice any points you disagreed with except to say that we are insincere in saying that we enjoy cigarettes. That is not a discussion. That is a slap in the face done without provocation.
You've brought no opinions here. You have stated what is going on in other people's hearts and minds as being different from what they say is going on there - you make these statements in grammar that marks them as fact, not opinion, and you seem puzzled when others point out the monstrous amount of discourtesy such behavior entails.
Why do you feel such strong motivation to devote this kind of energy to convincing two people to accept your help when they clearly stated more than once that they don't want it? That's a serious question and one you need to look inside of yourself to find the answer for.
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| It's not complicated. Whatever health detriments are well-known by now, and even in Korea the methods and routes available to those who want to quit are well known and easy to find. You don't need to do this. |
This is the main reason I��m engaging in this ��discussion��. I do need to do this. |
Why? Why do YOU need to do this? Why does it need to be done, and done to people who do not want it? Again, look inside yourself and sincerely explain to us your motivations, CC.
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| So Bobster, in conclusion, it��s regretful that you considered my comments rude. |
It's equally regretful that you can find no way to rationally explain how calling people deluded or dishonest is anything less than rude.
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| I think you know that weren��t meant that way. I tried to engage you in a ��friendly wager�� (which again, you haven��t declined). I didn��t give you an ultimatum. It is yours to accept or refuse. |
I notice you declined the terms of Swiss James' response. That speaks for itself. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| After quitting and restarting several times, I've come to realise the problem for me isn't the physical addiction. Its that I need a positive image of myself as a non-smoker. |
The positive image of oneself as a non-smoker is basically the same as the positive image non-smack users have of themselves: they have enough self-respect and willpower not to be helpless addicts. They have control over their minds and bodies. They are strong people. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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butterfly wrote:
The music brought back memories.  |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Cthulhu wrote: |
butterfly wrote:
The music brought back memories. |
Took me a while to place it ... theme song to "The Dating Game," A Chuck Barris Production, if I'm not mistaken. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| After quitting and restarting several times, I've come to realise the problem for me isn't the physical addiction. Its that I need a positive image of myself as a non-smoker. At the back of my mind, I still believe that smoking's cool, same as I did when itook it up as a 14 yr old. A hard perception to shift- I enjoy smoking, and think that cigarettes suit my personality and self image. |
I agree with this, but I think that it's just part of the bigger issue about finding pleasure in smoking, and at the heart of the smokers vs. nonsmokers debate. There are several reasons why I find myself smoking, and only one of them has to do with nicotine and "addiction".
The Good Match - Fried meats and beers, for some reason, go well with cigarettes. There's something about the chemistry between these items that really just clicks. It's not smoking after meals in general, and I can drink alcohol and not smoke a bit, but if I eat some kalbi, cigarettes actually blend well with the carcinogenic fried meat and make me happy. Similar with beer in certain situations. Which brings up the next point.
Peer Pressure - Not in the traditional sense; more like monkey see, monkey do. I'm sitting around, not craving a cigarette at all, just chillin' and illin' like a villian. Haven't had a ciggie all day, even. Then somebody nearby lights up and the smoke wafts in my direction. Or maybe everybody I'm with at the table pulls out their cigs and lights up. If you watch smokers smoke, they tend to do it in clumps, especially when on the sauce on a Friday night. One guy pulls a cig out, and, before you know it, everyone at the table feels that it's a good idea and joins in.
Tragic Guitarist/Writer - This is the one that gets me the most, and is related to rapier's point. There's a rebellious image to smoking (funny, that), that is more or less ingrained into the habit as a cultural phenomenon. If I start fooling around with my guitar, or actually manage to sit down and write, something about this triggers the need to meld with those ancient images of those types smoking.
Watching the Clock - Not literally, but more about the habits you build up behind smoking. The biggest one for me is smoking at the PC room; I like to smoke and type out messages or play games. I play a game, I feel like smoking.
The Wicked Buzz - Inebriating substances hit me harder than they do the average person (alcohol's the same), and if I go a day or two without a cigarette, that first one pretty much KOs me for a good five minutes. This is my own biggest problem with quitting, since I dig that hard buzz. On the flip side, I don't get a buzz if I start smoking regularly for the day.
I'm waiting for some friends who are keen smokers to carry on next week before I take the time to quit. No need for books or patches, as I'm breaking barriers if I smoke half a pack a day. The only addiction I have is the habits associated with smoking, not the cigarettes themselves. |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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The Bobster wrote:
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| Took me a while to place it ... theme song to "The Dating Game," A Chuck Barris Production, if I'm not mistaken. |
Ah, that's it. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:05 am Post subject: |
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Who can guess which is the HEALTHY lung? On the bright side, once you quit smoking it apparently takes a mere 5 YEARS to retain their original state. |
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