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sparkx
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: thekimchipot.com
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 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
It shouldn't. But the question is why do people who are living together get married. Unfortunately, in more cases than not, it's because the relationship has died a natural death but the couple doesn't recognize that. All the know is they have feelings like maybe they want out but are afraid to be alone. Living with someone is comfy. Your apartment is typically nicer.
There then comes this brinkmanship state where each side basically dares the other person to get on the marriage track because they think a) marriage will breath new life into the relationship or b) this will make my companion dump me so I don't have to do the dirty work.
Of course, they end up getting married. The honeymoon is all too short. And then it's back to the same unworkable problems and petty issues that were the clarion call that the relationship should have ended months ago. Their next brilliant move is then "Say, let's have kids because that will breath new life into our marriage." Now it gets uglier because a child is produced and used later in a divorce as a bargaining chip. Sometime before the child option or after the child option there's also the "a three way will do this relationship good" option... |
I hear what your saying...but there aren't any statistics showing how many couples made a clean break and walked away during these stagnant times - no wrecked home, no lawyers and no children caught in the middle.
I would hazard to say that ALL couples will experience this feeling at one point or another. You are presupposing that the union of marriage somehow has a magical leash guiding couples through these dark times when if fact, in my opinion, marriage has a way of exacerbating this feeling. I know of a few couples who felt completely trapped after tying the knot and realizing that living with their SO would drive them to manslaughter. They think of the wedding, all the people supporting them, the gifts they received, the money invested, joint bank accounts, downpayment on the house, etc etc. Not healthy.
I honestly believe that there is a happy medium. When the day comes when i propose there will be a footnote attached to the ring reading "only after we live together for 6 months." I've had enough g/f's stay at my place for extended periods of time to know that there is maybe 1 out of 25 who i actually enjoy being around all the time. I've gone to some serious lengths to convince girls to go home because they were simply annoying the holy hell outta me (including saying i had a business trip and actually packing a suitcase full of dirty clothes and walking to the bus stop to "catch the airport bus.") |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| sparkx wrote: |
| I honestly believe that there is a happy medium. When the day comes when i propose there will be a footnote attached to the ring reading "only after we live together for 6 months." |
Such a string as you plan to attach to the engagement ring, Sparkx, would have saved my friend considerable time, money and grief. (He being the computer programmer who somewhat crudely likened western girls to "shareware") For he was to marry a young lady of this nation next month, and only last week came to discover there were real and serious incompatibilities between he and his intended. That these differences only came to light at this very advanced stage in their relationship was, he is certain, entirely unnecessary, as they would have surfaced long, long before had only they spent an uninterrupted week or two living together. For the record, I know the whole story -- this is not a case of him getting cold feet as the fateful day drew nearer.
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| I've had enough g/f's stay at my place for extended periods of time to know that there is maybe 1 out of 25 who i actually enjoy being around all the time. |
You've lived with as many as 25 girls?  Wait, forget that -- you've had 25 girlfriends??? Going for some sort of record, I gather.
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| I've gone to some serious lengths to convince girls to go home because they were simply annoying the holy hell outta me (including saying i had a business trip and actually packing a suitcase full of dirty clothes and walking to the bus stop to "catch the airport bus.") |
Sure, and sometimes it can happen quite fast. Like the Sunday afternoon following the Friday night, and suddenly your CD collection starts whispering to you: "Psst! Hey, Guru -- get rid of her, and you & I can be alone together." That's never a good sign.  |
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sparkx
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: thekimchipot.com
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| You've lived with as many as 25 girls? Wait, forget that -- you've had 25 girlfriends??? Going for some sort of record, I gather. |
Hehe. Sorry that came out wrong. The 25 was just an arbitrary number to drive my point home.
I've actually only lived with 20 |
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Sage Monkey
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Sage Monkey on Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:34 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Sage Monkey wrote: |
When I was dating my Korean wife, she stayed over at my house pretty much 3-5 days out of the week. Her mother and siblings pretty much figured it out but didn't really care. It was for the benefit of her father that she would sometimes sneek back into the house while he was in bed.
Once we got engaged and we had the ceremony wit her father, she moved in with me permanently. It wasn't a big deal at all. |
Not to stray off topic, but what was the ceremony like? I find this all quite fascinating. Also, if you don't mind me asking, was your wife from a certain income class? I am curious if it's more difficult to get married to a gal who is from a richer family than yours, or easier if she's from a family less well-off.
Been dating a lady who is from a more well-to-do family where everyone (females included) have jobs that rake in well over twice what I make. |
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Sage Monkey
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Sage Monkey on Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:56 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Guru, if we had your house I don't think shacking up would be a problem. |
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sistersarah
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Location: hiding out
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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My husband lived with me in the apartment my hogwan provided last year. when he moved out of his parent's house (at 28 years old) he told them he was moving in with a co-worker to be closer to work. they still don't know that we lived together, although his mother asked once.
it did kind of bothered me that he couldn't be up front with his parents about it, since i told mine right away and just said -- good for you, he must be very special and we trust in your judgemnt.
yeah yeah, culture, smulture. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
| Guru, if we had your house I don't think shacking up would be a problem. |
Pyongshin Sangja, I like women. (or however TMKATM says it  )
No, hold on... You're saying something else. The more the floor space, the less the social stigma? 
Oh screw it, what are you saying?
| sistersarah wrote: |
| My husband lived with me in the apartment my hogwan provided last year. when he moved out of his parent's house (at 28 years old) he told them he was moving in with a co-worker to be closer to work. they still don't know that we lived together, although his mother asked once. |
I'd suggest you keep denying it!!  If they don't find out, you won't end up as one of Kangnamdragon's statistics. 
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it did kind of bothered me that he couldn't be up front with his parents about it, since i told mine right away and just said -- good for you, he must be very special and we trust in your judgemnt.
yeah yeah, culture, smulture. |
What does that mean? That cultural differences can sometimes be a byatch? Or that people tend to make too much of them?
Last edited by JongnoGuru on Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cheyne
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Location: Ilsan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Cheyne wrote: |
I live with my girlfriend but her parents, siblings and friends don't know about it as they are in Busan and we are in Ilsan (Seoul).
If her parents found out, the fit would hit the shan, not because I am a westerer, but the fact she is living with a man and is not married. |
Right, this is precisely what I'm thinking -- it's still a no-no. Cheyne, how about your & her employers, your neighbours & shopowners in your area? Do you tell them you're married in order to save face, like the couples I mentioned in Japan? I suppose with neighbours & village people, it depends on whether you see yourself living there a while. But employers... one typically has those for years. How do you deal with them? That was the biggest worry of the cohabitating mixed couples in Japan. |
I do not tell my Director or other teachers as it could cause some kind of trouble, I just tell them I live with a friend. But to our neighbours and shopowners, I don't tell them squat because they don't ask. If they did, then I would probably tell them we are married. My girlfriend tells her Director and co-workers the same thing.
It really annoys me sometimes that her parents/family/friends don't know about us living together, but on the other hand, it is her culturs and I want to respect it. When her friends come to Seoul, we simply cannot let them stay here overnight. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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I was told that our school was planning to hire a Canadian teacher they met before they met me. He was offered the job, but when housing discussions came up, he mentioned to someone if it would be OK if his girlfriend lived in the apartment with him (they were living together). Word got around to the Principal, and they made some kind of scoff about it.
I was told that the guy got "very rude" with the Principal, so they didn't hire him. Basically, I think he told them it wasn't any of their business. At worst, he told them to F-off.
I don't live with anyone (place is a box anyway), but I sure wouldn't let anyone at my school know about it if I did.
One of my students told me that our principal is a, "...very Conservative old-style Korean."
Apparently, she lectured the students en-mass about how they should never go to a Jim-Ji-Bang, because sometimes young couples are seen there holding hands and lounging around together. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| kangnamdragon wrote: |
Studies show that premarital cohabitaion is damaging to the marriage. Couples are twice as likely go get divorced.
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If so, then why does Korea (which has a very low level of premarital cohabitation) have such a high divorce rate?
People are marrying for the wrong reasons: is my answer. Its got nothing to do with cohabitation. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| kangnamdragon wrote: |
Studies show that premarital cohabitaion is damaging to the marriage. Couples are twice as likely go get divorced.
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If so, then why does Korea (which has a very low level of premarital cohabitation) have such a high divorce rate?
People are marrying for the wrong reasons: is my answer. Its got nothing to do with cohabitation. |
Yes, very true. But also, I would say that western ideals just don't fit well with traditional Korean roles.
Women are not the "slaves" to the man that they once were, yet many men feel they deserve to be the "king" of the home.
There's also a ton more "hanky-panky" in this society than any Korean dare admit. Actually, they go to great lengths to hide that fact. |
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waterbaby
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| sparkx wrote: |
| kangnamdragon wrote: |
Studies show that premarital cohabitaion is damaging to the marriage. Couples are twice as likely go get divorced.
Who says it does not raise eyebrows? I think 1/2 the people in the country would think it is wrong in the States. |
meh..statistics, schmatistics.
Stats don't take into account happiness. My guess would be that the marginal number of people who tilt the balance in favor of non-cohabitation before marriage are miserable as all hell but feel obligated to stay together due to asinine religious beliefs and/or feelings of guilt.
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ya, took the words right out of my mouth. some of those who equate pre-marital cohabitation with "wrong" are the same poor suckers who end up spending the rest of their lives in misery because it's "wrong" to get divorced. hahaha 
Jongno - I am a western woman + I lived with my korean bf in China (and then travelled a bit together, including a month sharing a bed at my Catholic parents house no probs at all) before we got married. His family and my family didn't raise an eyebrow at all. Some people thought it was a bit "unusual" but we didn't get any grief for it. |
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PolyChronic Time Girl
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Korea Exited
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Last year I worked at a public school and they only provided "dorms" which meant strict rules. I had visiting hours for all guests and NO ONE could sleep over even for one night (not even family members)...there were guards to check if unwanted visitors were entering the school...this makes life miserable if you have a regular boyfriend/girlfriend. I told the school "thanks but no thanks" to the school housing. The ajeoshi director even insisted that since I was not married yet, I should live in the dorms. Korea can still be very conservative in that they even want single women to live like nuns.
Thank god, I hit the jackpot with my fiance's mother. She's a godsend...she had no problem with us living together, not married yet(maybe she thinks I'll get pregnant faster )...she even gave us the key money for the apartment!! I realize I'm luckier than most when it comes to a cool Korean mother. She doesn't want me to live alone...she doesn't even want me to work!! But I think there's a price to pay in the future: she wants me knocked up and making kimchi at home. |
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