Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Kenny Kimchee]

Hi guys,

Quick question about public vs. private high schools. Here in Japan, the public high schools are rated higher academically and are difficult to get into; the private high schools are lower level and thus easier to gain entrance into (I've noticed a lot of private high school kids working part time jobs in the supermarket while wearing their school uniforms. I always think to myself "If you'd put the time into studying for the public school entrance exams you wouldn't have to work this gig now to pay for your schooling." Then again, I didn't know up from down when I was 14 years old, so why do I expect these kids to?).

Anyway, what's the deal in Korea? Which ones are considered "better" academically? Why do kids go to private high schools there?

[JacktheCat]

One the plus side for teachers, the 'private' high-schools don't make you follow the crap, public school text book and cirrculum and allow you a much freer reign in the classroom.

[different]

Actually it's not that way in Korea, from what I know. I heard that students have to pay a monthly fee whether they attend a public high school or a private high school, and that the fee is about the same for both types of schools. I also don't think regular public high schools are considered better or more competitive than regular private high schools. Some of my hogwan students who were top students in their middle schools ended up going to private high schools.

Generally students who perform in the lower 30% in middle school have to go to a "technical" or a "commercial" high school which focuses on preparing students for a job or a two-year college. Maybe these schools are usually private, but I don't know.

[Derrek]

I work at a Private HS.

The teachers with the highest college scores who pass a certain test can get Public school jobs. It is much better to be a Korean working at a Public school. Once you're there, you're in for life. You have tons of job security. I believe pay is better.

This didn't jell with me at first, knowing how Koreans are so big on equal education opportunities, etc. What Korean in their right mind would ever want their kid going to a Private high school, where the teachers are not the top grade-earners, and their child might be getting an inferior education? So I asked my English department head, who by the way, just passed and got accepted into a Public job after over 16 years at my Private school...

She said this:

At Private schools, Koreans are on contract and can be fired at the drop of a hat. The teachers have to work VERY hard (I've seen that this is true). Especially the new ones.

At Public schools, the teachers are in for life -- like tenure. They can't be fired unless they mess up in a MAJOR way. They can (and many do) sit back and do next-to-nothing. They can just come to work, follow the same dull routine, and collect their checks. As you can imagine, this can lower the educational standards quite a bit.


I have learned that students leaving Middle School are allowed to choose their top 3 schools, and the gov't will chose one of those for them. Certain schools have a stronger emphasis on a certain discipline, and which school emphasizes what is well-known to everyone.

My school is big on foreign languages. We have 3 foreign English teachers, and had (will get a replacement) a Chinese teacher from China.

My school is known for top marks overall in English in the Bundang area. Actually, we go back and forth with another school near Seohyun, which is supposed to be (I think I heard this) the largest and richest school in the Bundang area.

I'm told that when our school started adding foreign teachers a few years back, our student scores took a massive leap upward. Our numbers can only go up, because we now have a reputation and students who want to study English are making our school their top preference. Naturally, those students will include some of the top area students, so I can only see the gap widening for the next few years.

Also, as evidence of this, my 1st year students out-performed my 2nd year students, on average, in all but 3 classes out of 11 last year. I know because I could see the difference, and decided to teach the same supplimental material to both grades and issue the same test over that material only for 2 weeks. My 1st graders kicked my 2nd graders' collective butts overall.

I assume that the new students we get in 1st grade this year will be even better. I'm looking forward to it, actually.

[Kenny Kimchee]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

Derrek: How's that for irony? The best university students can go on to be as slack as they want, while the second-tier guys go on to face a lot of job pressure (and subsequently will probably improve their skills to become better teachers).

Here in Japan, the situation is much the same regarding public school job security - it's virtually impossible to get fired. Most of the teachers I see in my junior high schools (I work at 4 different schools) seem to care (albeit in a misguided, teacher-centered, "I am the source of all knowledge and you will sit back and absorb what I have to say" kind of way), but there's nothing to stop them from not caring if they don't want to.

I work with one Japanese teacher of English who is absolutely awful. Her English sucks, she has no classroom control, she's burnt out, and she just doesn't care. Her students are at the same place in the textbook as the students in the other schools, but they haven't learned anything. Indifference is the cardinal sin of teaching; this woman should be pushing paper in some office somewhere, not influencing the futures of students. Unfortunately, she'll never get the sack.

I can't speak for public high schools, but I would assume that the situation is the same. I can't speak for private high schools at all.

[fidel]

I beg to differ on some aspects with Derreck.
-Teachers at private high schools do get tenure and it is very difficult to fire them. They do however contract on a yearly basis about 20 teachers and don't give them tenure much like the foreign English teachers.
- My school head hunts teachers/lecturers from universities to full vacant positions.
-Public schools are more secure in that they can't technically go bankrupt, and the owner can't take all the money and split town which happens on occassion.
-If the foundation is wealthy you get paid better than their contempories in public school positions.
-It is my understanding that the parents have little say on which school their children will attend. It is done on a kind of ballot system relative to where you live. That's why there was the rush to move to Gangnam as there is a higher percentage of 'good' schools in a given area, raising the likeihood that they will go to a good school. A couple of days ago there was an article in one of the Korean papers discussing how some parents in Tower Palace forced the Ministry to change the school that was allocated to their children as they said it was too far away, when their preference, a better school, was actually further away.

[Derrek]

At a Public school, teachers can join a union.

At my school, if a Korean teacher so much as breathes the word, "union," they are set out on their ass in a heartbeat.

Another note... in Korea, if you are a Korean teacher working at a Private school and want to move to Public one (or any other school, for that matter), you must get approval from your boss to even leave your job. Your boss can simply say, "no" to the other institution, and you're stuck there. I believe it's the same for Public teachers going elsewhere, also.

One step up from slavery?

For fidel:

I mentioned the ballot system, but did not imply that they can choose a school. No, parents don't have a say in which school their children attend, past what they choose as preferences.

[fidel]

Actually my school has a union, it's just that it isn't called a union. It goes by the name of Teacher's Representative Group. They hold quite a lot of power and last year forced the principal to retire because he was past the 'teachers' retirement age of 62. What's good for the goose is good for the gander or so they thought


Edited with articles added.

[Derrek]

[fidel]

Didn't you get the hint Derreck. People aren't interested in your attempts at one-up-manship. If you really must know I'm a New Zealander with English, Irish and French ancestry. As such I'm not a member of the teacher's group, however I can say they didn't protest, as unlike some schools, staff are promoted/hired on their merits. I can safely say that not one single member of the Samsung ruling family has a job at the school. My school unlike yours isn't second rate, nor does it hire second rate staff. I suppose your school has to settle for what they can get.

Now here's a word for you to learn, it's called w anker and I suggest you stop being a complete one.

[Derrek]

[fidel]

While, as you may be aware the Ministry of Education resists publishing school rankings in order to try to halt people moving to be close to the best schools. However there is of course an unofficial ranking system undertaken by universities and parent groups. These rankings place my school firmly in 5th place (Korea wide) in terms of academic achievements and entry to top universities. I wouldn't be out of line therefore to label my school first rate.

[Derrek]

[fidel]

Nobody can beat Daechidong's super wonderful school with his giant apartment and massive salary. He wins hands down, at least in the bragging stakes!

[Kenny Kimchee]

Isn't there a flame room you guys can take this to?