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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Girl I met today hadn't spoken to another foreigner in over 2 and a half years - that was me. Her English was rusty. |
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William Beckerson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Why can't koreans speak English? |
Because they live in a country where English is not the main language, so they dont have to.
So, how's your Hindi? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Forrest: If hindi was the main language of the world today and it promised a bright future by the learning of it, if i'd learned it for years on end (forced or no), if it was on every billboard and formed the highest percentage of language in the internet etc etc, then i'd say i'd be able to say more than hello by now. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Run Forrest Run wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Why can't koreans speak English? |
Because they live in a country where English is not the main language, so they dont have to.
So, how's your Hindi? |
I think what rapier was getting at was that despite all the time and money that koreans spend learning the language, they are so bad at it.
Probably 2 things
1) Public school/hagwon system. Teachers who don't know enlgish, english speakers who don't know how to teach.
2) The whole philsophy of rote learning everything and not questioning the teacher I think impedes their learning. I try to have at least one lesson a week that covers stuff that students are interested in (so there have been a few wrestling/harry potter lessons) particulary for the older one instead of religously sticking to the a text book that was relevant to american teenagers a decade ago.
CLg |
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Stunted Wookie
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Sound Studio
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| crazylemongirl wrote: |
Probably 2 things
1) Public school/hagwon system. Teachers who don't know enlgish, english speakers who don't know how to teach.
CLg |
Bingo |
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matko
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| not questioning the teacher |
I can't even count how many times my Korean students in Canada would say to me "Teacher, you are wrong! My teacher in Korea told me the correct way to say ____ is this____!"
My eyes would always roll into the back of my head...... kinda like this... 
Why did these students decide to travel half way around the world and spend a boat load of money when they had all the answers already in Korea?
Sorry for the rant.
This was my, and many other teachers, major pet peeve with Korean students. |
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Korea Newfie
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Newfoundland and Labrador
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| Forrest: If hindi was the main language of the world today and it promised a bright future by the learning of it, if i'd learned it for years on end (forced or no), if it was on every billboard and formed the highest percentage of language in the internet etc etc, then i'd say i'd be able to say more than hello by now. |
You'd probably be able to ask, "Where are you from?" and say, "Ooh" and nod at the answer too... |
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ItalianPrincess
Joined: 22 May 2003
Location: Hey...why is there a big raccoon staring at me????
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
| I can't think of a single country where you can shop in english as a foreign language which was not at least once in their history colonized by english speaking empire. |
I can...uh...Italy!!!! or Greece!!! |
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indiercj
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| ItalianPrincess wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
| I can't think of a single country where you can shop in english as a foreign language which was not at least once in their history colonized by english speaking empire. |
I can...uh...Italy!!!! or Greece!!! |
I never knew Italians and Greeks were all english learning genii. Thanks. |
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matko
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Indiercj,
They are not geniouses. As was posted by others, the grammar is a lot easier for European speakers.
I could list another 20 or 30 countries off the top of my head whose people have a better grasp of the English language than do the Koreans (ones not occupied by an English speaking country)
Having said that, I can't think of another nationality who can speak Japanese better than the Koreans.
This is not because the Japanese occupied the Korean peninsula. It is a little more complicated than that. |
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jg
Joined: 27 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| So why the *** can't Koreans speak a word of it? What are we all here for, when you can't do the simplest of transactions at the bank, or buy the book you want, because there are no tellers or sales people who speak even the most basic words? Whats the point of it all? |
Rapier,
Why can't you speak any Korean? If you have trouble handling even the most basic functions here, perhaps that is more a reflection on you than the people who only have a command of the native language of the vast majority in Korea. Do you think that they all ought to be prepared in case you grace them with your presence? Not simply those whose job demands (and pays enough to attend) English classes, but everyone who might cross your glorious path? "Whew, thats a relief... we managed to sell him some stamps. Well, let's continue on in Korean, at least until he needs more batteries..."
Clerks ought to be fluent, of course... perhaps they ought to dip into their generous salaries and pay for some of your English lessons, not that the miserable lot will learn anything, to hear you tell the tale. Your postings are nearing 300, perhaps you ought to get out more and learn some of the very basics. How long have you been in Korea, anyway?
And you seem so determined to be nasty in your view of the Koreans!... other posters (at least one of them Korean) came up with solid reasons - little chance to practice, wide variance between English and their language, recent conversion to English-mania, lessons not out of choice but through the school system. Nope, you seem determined to make them seem a hopeless group. Even the malnourished orphans of Mozambique did better. Well, thank goodness you have arrived to save the day!
Perhaps that is the point you are looking for: Korea ought to be the Cancun of ESL. Won't that be fun... no one will speak the native language, but they will be amply equipped to wait on you.
It seems this board is so often so negative that even the ridiculous takes on shades of the reasonable. How base. Of course there will always be a chorus to back up such shite. |
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sid
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Berkshire, England
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Rapier,
Why can't you speak any Korean? |
If I remember correctly, he can't speak any Korean because he chooses not to buy into the hierachical values inherent in the language 
To be fair, rapier seems rather unhappy with life in SK so perhaps the negative posts are just a way of getting through the days. Or maybe he's just p**ssed off that Zim got done by an innings in the cricket last week  |
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William Beckerson
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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irrelivent rubbish.
English is a tool used to get certaint types of jobs here in Korea. Some Koreans need to know enough English to get a decent TOEIC score, but in general, most Koreans, like most people in the world, will never have a need to speak a second language.
Most people in the world do not speak English because they dont need to. They're not involved in international trade/ tourism/ etc...
Face it, we're a scam business that means nothing once these kids get into the real work world. ie: Driving a taxi and running their PC bahng. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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jg, your first post on here. Welcome, (or are you a regular who wants to hind behind a new alias I wonder.)
Correct, my level of Korean is shameful: but this belongs to a separate thread "why not learn Korean". I don't bother that much because generally speaking, I don't like the people much. When I've been in countries where I do, I've found myself picking it up rapidly.
But my point was: that Koreans learn English a lot through their life yet hardly anyone ever speaks it.
To be honest, why learn Korean? Do you hope to travel someday?
Sid: I was at school with Guy Whittal and Stewart Carlisle of the Zim team. Guy was an a***hole, Stew was a nice quiet guy.
I think the Zim side knows it can't really hope to progress on the int. scene much until the whole situation in the country starts to generally improve.. they're just happy to be able to make some foreign exchange.!
Oh yes its day 3 without a cigarette so far, I'm quitting after 16 years of smoke. So yes, I'm a bit irritated and edgy!!! |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| crazylemongirl wrote: |
Probably 2 things
1) Public school/hagwon system. Teachers who don't know enlgish, english speakers who don't know how to teach. |
Up until VERY recently, speaking English was just not the priority and received very little attention. Everyone is taught to read and write English, and that is the priority. If you ever teach adult students, you'll note that they can all write English far beyond their ability to speak it.
Or for another example, ask high school students how many of them are learning Chinese. Then ask them who's learning to actually speak Chinese. You'll note a huge drop in the number of hands. Of the students I know studying Chinese, they are learning only to read and write it and not one is learning to speak it. |
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