Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Pyongshin Sangja]

[Canuckophile]

You're no less addicted if you're NOT pawning/stealing, etc., to satisfy an addiction.

SO WHAT'S YOUR POINT? That people won't come to Korea to commit crimes to buy liquor/drugs? That liquor is affordable so it's NOT an issue? Or NOT addictive?

What you're saying simply makes no sense, or at least, I can't figure out the connection.

And I'm sober as I type this...

CANUCKOPHILE

[lastat06513]

Canuckophile- So, anyone who wishes to expresses any type of opposition to a certain post is a questionable person?

Please try not to get too personal on the issue.

There should be pros and cons to every issue and everyone should have their say, no matter whether it is good nor bad. (or should I just mention to others what a certain mod wrote to me in a pm)

I think a background check is a good idea, but remember that the decision to back such an idea might hurt either you or a person you know later when they apply for their next job.

~ Also, let me clarify somethings;

1. Not all Korean-western marriages end in divorce. From what I have seen, most of those marriages ended once they headed back to the spouse's home country. I'm sorry to say, there is a sizable percentage that still want a greencard. But there are still quite a few happy "mixed" couples.

2. Not all teachers arrive fresh off the boat. Quite a few now are arriving here on a tourist visa first to look for work before committing to a contract. As they stay, alot of them are picking up part time work to suppliment their income until something fixed comes along.

Did you also know adultry is a criminal offense?
What would happen if some rejection-happy bureaucrat also wants to add a check of any marriage records and they see the divorce proceedings and it mentions anything about adultry?

I just think that Korea doesn't have the resources nor the time to do this kind of work.
And frankly speaking, this will make the ESL market more unattractive to future prospective teachers, thus making it harder and harder for Hogwons to find fresh teachers for their classrooms and they start losing money. Then they would protest the laws and most of us see where I am leading.

Alot of people just simply don't get the point that this is also a business, very much so for both the public AND private sector.

Just deal with it.

__________________________
Who am I?
I am Lastat.
I am the original devil's advocate

[Canuckophile]

First of all, I'm not trying to accuse anyone of having a criminal record, but the fervor with some people seem opposed to a standard criminal record check (which you would undergo in the west for MANY jobs, including teaching in MOST public schools) simply makes no sense to me.

And BTW, I don't think that either (a) criminal record checks or (b) degree verifications need to be done for every single contract - just the FIRST CONTRACT YOU SIGN. (The Korean gov't should simply keep track of this along with other information that is maintained in their immigration/work permit/passport files. It seems silly to have to produce the same records over and over. This should also be true of official transcripts, which public schools require. After you've gone through the approval process once, and all items are verified, it should be a matter of record in Korea.)

Contracts are supposed to be signed, in most circumstances, out of country. As to Lastat's comment that many people are already in Korea interviewing for jobs - I'm well aware of that. But if they're in SK on tourist visas looking for jobs, they're already doing something illegal. Most part-time work is also illegal. (Maybe these are stupid laws, but these are their laws.) Switching jobs is another matter - you can get a release that's legal.

Your comments about working your way through college and enlisting in the army ... fine, I admire you. My daughter was in the army, too, and supposedly for the same reason, although she never exactly finished college. (I'm sure she'll figure out how dumb that was immediately after the education bennies run out.)

But what has that got to do with this issue??? We might as well be talking cookie recipes.

Also - on Korean-foreigner marriages ... most are to military guys, who have a very high rate of divorce anyway. I have also heard from western men that their Korean wives do not adjust well to the west, or the women find out that their English isn't adequate to "transition" well, etc., and so the men are faced with the choice of returning to Korea or ending the marriage. However, if it's a 90% divorce rate (I don't know - again, this is just what I was told) it's sky-high by any standard of measure. Let's hope the remaining 10% (or whatever it is) are "happy 'mixed' couples."

Curmudgeon that I am, I tend to think marriage is a challenge anyway. Or as one mother responded when her daughter announced her impending marriage to someone with whom she seemed to have little in common ... happily adding, "But, Mom - don't you think opposites attract?" Weary Mom's response: "Honey, just being man and woman is opposite enough."

[chronicpride]

From what I'm reading, it looks like you two are debating 2 different things. What should be done vs. what will likely occur, if tried. From my POV, I think you are both right in your respective arguments. It's great to have all of these lofty ideals, but the execution will ultimately fail, given the host of reasons that foreigners can't do a thing about. At the heart of it is a Korean issue, which, if anything is done, will get a Korean solution, without any consultation with foreigners, registrars' offices, or other country's governmental bodies. Even if this speck of an issue were to become a large social matter, which Ministry of Education has already said that it isn't.

As for criminal record checks, I still strongly agree that they are needed in principle, even though nothing will come of it. And it worries me further that there is resistance to the need(other than those who are merely pointing out the doomed execution of it, whom I agree with.), which I think, could open up the possibility that there may be more skeletons in western closets than most realize.

[cellphone]

[lastat06513]

Canuckophile, first of all, I would like to say that I strongly agree with your argument and I want to say that various checks and verifications should be done to ensure that professionals do come and hopefully stay in Korea to teach.

But, being the Devil's Advocate, I must provide an opposing viewpoint on the matter to give people a "2-sided" version of the issue at hand to allow people a chance to see why this can also be a very damaging decision to make when doing this.

quote:

[Canuckophile]

My comment originally:

I don't think that either (a) criminal record checks or (b) degree verifications need to be done for every single contract - just the FIRST CONTRACT YOU SIGN.

Your response:

[lastat06513]

Exactly!

And I agree that if there were more foreign-owned and operated schools in Korea, I feel that the education level along with the qualities of teachers coming into Korea would greatly increase dramatically.

Or even set up a business based on what my brother did (kinda). He's a landscaper and he would go to people's homes and spruce up their lawns and gardens.
Why can't they streamline home education in that a teacher could teach legally in a person's home to a certain individual or a small group?
I have found Kwawae (personal home tutoring) to be more effective than going to a hogwon in several ways.

1. The students feel more comfortable studying in their own home.
2. The parents could be more involved in their child's education.
3. The teacher and the parent could coordinate directly on the material and curriculum to be taught.
4. Time would be more flexible to the teacher's, parents' and children's schedules.
5. Empowers the teachers yet hold them totally responsible for their teaching, forcing them to continually improve to stay ahead of competing teachers.

There is an endless array of benefits that could be opened if this was to be lagalized. But, sadly it won't because it would put the teachers in direct competition with the Hogwon owners, who, again, have there own National Hogwon Association to support and defend them. And also the government would definitely want to collect taxes off the income we make (which is the official reason why private tutoring is illegal)

I also have another idea about verifying degrees; apostlization of a degree by an accediting agency prior to coming to Korea. This is has to be done to be able to work throughout the Middle East and in some places in Europe. In Korea, the local consulates can do it or even the British Counsil (with them, it only costs about 40,000 to verify a degree [commonwealth, of course] in 3 working days with a certificate of authenicity)
And the New York board of Education refers people to accediting agencies for this prupose prior to inducting them into the New York Teachers' Fellowship Program (NYC version of the JETT and EPIK program)

Thats something to think about

I would like to say it has been a wonderful time participating in this discussion and thank you for fully allowing me to share my insight and opinions on the matter.

and thanks Canuckophile, you are a good debating partner

[Pyongshin Sangja]

[chronicpride]

I agree. There is a definite contingent over here who are in Korea as a place to deal with their stuff. Some of those people are conscious of it and make positive headway. On the flipside, there are those that are in denial of that the angst in their life may be coming from within, and don't realize that are just looking for outlets to project blame and take the focus off of themselves. Those ones are the kind that I have a really tough time with the idea of them in a class full of kids.

[Pyongshin Sangja]

Those ones don't last anyway. They will go to a country where they can fix. Hopefully, they don't traumatise Korean kids on their way down. They can be hell in the staff room, for sure.

[Canuckophile]

Tell me it ain't so - a few people seem to think it's OK for westerners with drug addiction problems to come to SK as teachers?????

The few who may be helped by this "cold turkey" (cold kimchi?) approach would probably have done just as well to re-settle themselves somewhere beyond their normal turf in the West - and not be in front of a classroom teaching children.

Well, I can only hope any Korean lurkers on this board do not think that all westerners agree that Korea is some kind of halfway house for western junkies. SHEESH - thought I'd heard it all but still some surprises left in life, I guess....

And I'm not being dismissive or negative toward people with these (drug) problems - I am fully sympathetic to their need to "change venue" and kick the habit. But teaching kids overseas??????? Sorry - don't care how you 'splain it, it's one crazy (and potentially dangerous) approach.

CANUCKOPHILE

[bosintang]

[bosintang]

I think more than anymore background checking can do, Korea just needs a major chilling out on the English front. I think the Korean powers-within need to come to terms with the fact that maybe, as a foreign culture, they are trying too hard to become an English-speaking nation, too quickly, and in turn are creating a demand that outstrips supply. They could reverse this trend by slowing down the drive for English, and by using foreign teacher hours more effectively. For example:

- private schools and hagweons -- They could shorten student contact with foreign teachers, from three-four classes a week to one or two classes.

- English kindergarten -- Is it *really* worth it to pay 500G+ per month to educate your kindergarten children in English, especially with untrained Kindergarten teachers?

- Public schools -- They could rethink altogether just how effective it is to have native speakers in the public schooling system, and even cancel the whole program altogether.

Of course, this is Korea and Koreans are going to do whatever they are going to do, whether it makes sense as an outsider or not.