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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| thebum wrote: |
| Coincidentally, I currently happen to be taking a class called "Korean Mass Media and Popular Culture". It's very interesting, and what's happening now seems to be on par with what we've studied and discussed hitherto. |
Would you care to enlighten us as to what you've studied hitherto? |
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cellphone
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| thebum wrote: |
| I currently happen to be taking a class called "Korean Mass Media and Popular Culture". It's very interesting, and what's happening now seems to be on par with what we've studied and discussed hitherto. |
I didn't think thebum seems condescending at all, seems alright. I seriously would like to hear what thebum has been learning and has to say about this based on the current media presentation. Do you make a big deal of this? Do you think this at all has any seriousness of a threat? What do you think the Korean people - and Korean media - are really trying to say by making a few low documentaries in recent weeks? Is this just 'on par' with their rhetoric and should completely blow away in a short while? Or do you think this has rather rotten underlinings and or otherwise is a sign that things are and can be taking a turn for even worse?
You said that what's happening recently is on course with what you've studied from the past, then would it be fairly accurate for me to say that you see this mostly as a phase for perhaps a few months where Koreans aren't really trying to target anyone, but simply need a drum to beat and put on a dance or mock protest? Or do you see it worse, as in Koreans or the Korean government really may 'go for blood?' What exactly to you mean 'on par' and what in the past does it basically seem on par with? |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:18 am Post subject: |
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My letter to the Chosun Ilbo:
Dear Kim Jae-eun,
As a former TV producer for a CBS affiliate in the USA, I am saddened and shocked at the horrible lack of any journalistic integrity in South Korea. There is an obvious anti-American agenda in this, as well as an anti-foreinger one.
I can't understand why more attention is not given to the fact that Hagwons and Korean Immigration are responsible for bringing the bad teachers to this country?
Instead of addressing the fact that no one does background checks on teachers, the Korean media is content with painting all teachers as evil, perverted, sex-crazed animals out to rape children.
I truly hope that the Korean community cleans up the ESL industry, however it must begin with the hagwon directors and immigration officers who are not checking degrees or the backgrounds of those coming here.
Degrees from the USA and Canada can be easily checked. All it takes is a phone call to the University they came from. There are also several agencies that can check for you, for a small fee of about $40. Why don't Koreans take responsibility for their own educational system and check out the teachers they are hiring? Similar police background checks can be performed as well.
Hagwon and school bosses take advantage of foreigners here all of the time. It's such a problem that the American (and I believe Canadian) Embassies use their websites to warn people from their country about accepting jobs here. I was one teacher who was taken advantage of here, as well. Nearly two years ago, I was hired by The Discovery School near Ichon in Seoul, and told I must work before my visa was approved, or else I would be kicked out of my apartment. Having no place to live, and being told not to worry and that my paperwork was "in process," I worked, and on my 2nd day of work, immigration officials raided the school. I was treated like a criminal, and nearly deported. The whole situation cost me nearly 3 million won. In the process, my boss told me that the immigration officials had attempted to bribe her into paying money so the problem would go away. My school took advantage of me, being a foreigner, and of my situtation, to use me to their monetary advantage. Then, when Immigration showed up, my school didn't want to help me as they promised they would.
Instead of searching for a remedy to the problem, the Korean media seems intent on painting foreigners as the entire problem. We in the foreigner community view these shows for what they are: paranoid, racist hate-speech aimed at foreigners. They do little to address the real problem: corrupt school owners and immigration officials who are in it for the quick buck.
Thankfully, I now work at a reputable private high school that tries to follow the E-2 Visa law as closely as possible.
Sincerely,
Derrek *****
Address, etc. included |
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nateyb
Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Location: witness protection program (or Bundang)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Nice Letter.
Let's get them!! |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| ("Thinking About the Racism Inside Us"), thinking that perhaps foreign teachers would be calling the show on its salacious trash. But no. The racism that they're talking about is that Koreans look down on Third World factory workers while giving a free pass to blue eyed foreigners because of Koreans' obsession with English education. This must be dealt with if Korea is to become a mature society. IMHO, this is a worthwhile point of discussion, but in the context of the smear campaign against us that precedes it I can't help but wonder what equal treatment might mean to them. |
This is a valid point of concern. We all know what it is to be treated like the rock star of the neighborhood and that the 3D guest workers get 180 degree different treatment. It would be a very good thing for Korea to address its extremely odd double standards.
The solution, however, is not to start treating ESLers the same shabby way the guest workers have been enduring. Reasonable, just and fair standards need to be set for the employment of non-citizens regardless of job, and then enforced. This would naturally mean working conditions would be supervised and employers would be held to the legal standards. Illegal sexual behavior and drug law violators would be held accountable to the same laws that apply to citizens. No more, no less. |
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Grim Ja
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: On the Beach
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| On the internet the discussion has turned away from unqualified English teachers. Now the population is disgusted and angry about korean women dating and marrying foreigners. There is a lot of hate on the web. Some say all the women are hores and deserve to be beat. There are photoshoped pictures of women with there heads cut off that say this should be down to the women. One writer says that the only way a female could ever redeem herself from dating a foreigner is to have sex with at least 100 korean guys. Basiclly this is not about the qualifications of ESL teachers. Even if Koreans only hired PHD's in linguisitics from MIT it still wouldn't be good enough. Koreans think that only losers come teach in Korea regardless of qualifications. Koreans hate other races unless they can get something out from them. There is nothing anyone can do to change this, but it seems that the news has stired up the emotions that have been kept inside for a long time. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Grim Ja wrote: |
| On the internet the discussion has turned away from unqualified English teachers. Now the population is disgusted and angry about korean women dating and marrying foreigners. There is a lot of hate on the web. Some say all the women are hores and deserve to be beat. There are photoshoped pictures of women with there heads cut off that say this should be down to the women. One writer says that the only way a female could ever redeem herself from dating a foreigner is to have sex with at least 100 korean guys. Basiclly this is not about the qualifications of ESL teachers. Even if Koreans only hired PHD's in linguisitics from MIT it still wouldn't be good enough. Koreans think that only losers come teach in Korea regardless of qualifications. Koreans hate other races unless they can get something out from them. There is nothing anyone can do to change this, but it seems that the news has stired up the emotions that have been kept inside for a long time. |
I think we all know that these "angry netizens" are the Korean men who are the unlucky ones in life who aren't getting what they feel they are entitled to just because they are a Korean male, and happen to be big losers in this society. It's certainly not all Koreans who are like this or feel this way. Chances are, women don't want them, or they can't get who they feel they deserve. How would you feel if you couldn't even be considered by most girl's families because you have little education, a crappy job, and spend most of your time playing games in a PC Bang? Worse, how would you feel after seeing a foriegner with a beautiful Korean woman who wouldn't even look at you because you're "not good enough?" The angry men are the loser guys. We all know the same types from back home.
As I've mentioned on here before, I've been assaulted in Korea for absolutely no reason other than that I'm a foreigner (while standing and watching a DVD playing at a "dvd for sale" table near Konkuk). Also, I've been spit at several times. There is a lot of hate and anger towards life that Koreans are not allowed to show to those older or in a more prestigious position than them. It's part of their culture that they can't display emotions like that. A psychologist friend once told me that suppressing your emotions is like trying to squeeze water in your hands. It has to come out in some way. Anti-foreigner hatred is how it's coming out for these people.
Sadly, all of this bad stuff is in Korean. I really wish some foreigners would translate this awful stuff verbatim and send it to CNN, FOX etc., in a very well-written letter about the situation.
Could someone please PM this Korean/English translated stuff to me, and I will gladly handle the rest?
I think once Koreans see it hit international critics, and it's broadcast to the rest of the world, and people abroad threaten to stop -- or do stop -- buying Samsung, LG, etc., this crap will stop VERY fast.
Korea's "power" in this world is basically minute, and this is a lot of what it's all about. Korea is like a rebellious child in its teen years, and needs to be given room to find it's own. The US needs to leave here, and give Korea the chance to move out and experience its own life. Let it make its own mistakes and pay for them. Let them have no one else to blame but themselves. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Grim Ja wrote: |
| On the internet the discussion has turned away from unqualified English teachers. Now the population is disgusted and angry about korean women dating and marrying foreigners. There is a lot of hate on the web. Some say all the women are hores and deserve to be beat. There are photoshoped pictures of women with there heads cut off that say this should be down to the women. One writer says that the only way a female could ever redeem herself from dating a foreigner is to have sex with at least 100 korean guys. Basiclly this is not about the qualifications of ESL teachers. Even if Koreans only hired PHD's in linguisitics from MIT it still wouldn't be good enough. Koreans think that only losers come teach in Korea regardless of qualifications. Koreans hate other races unless they can get something out from them. There is nothing anyone can do to change this, but it seems that the news has stired up the emotions that have been kept inside for a long time. |
Interesting, isn't it, how a borderline legitimate issue of drug use/fake degrees is purposely conflated with miscegenation? |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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I brought this up when that whole ES thing blew up. Remember? I said that it would be a good idea to shame these morons infront of the world. I was laughed at, you people said that this would blow over. Guess what. It hasnt.
Derrek, if you have connections to media outlsets back home, then do what you can to get the word out. Right now thse idiots think they can say anything, do anything because its in Korea, so its like a big secret. I would love to see this crap hit CNN, BBC, the internet. Make them lose face infront of the whole world.
I think that a vast majority of guys writing that hateful crap are young guys who have for some reason lost in the game of life. The anti social losers sitting in PC bangs all night long, their starcraft game being their only friend. Remember the Hong Dae protest? It was gonna be huge, all these netizens were gonna show up....and nothing happened. The nerds never made it out of the PC Bang. I guess they were angry enough about having no friends and no girls ever looking at them to write racist crap on boards, but either not angry enough or too damn scared to go to a protest where they may have to coinfront a foreigner face to face. And why Hongdae and not Itaewon? Maybe there were too many foreigners in Itaewon who may actually do soemthing to these stupid netizens?
The issue though isnt netizens. Its the media, doing such one sided, disgusting stories. They must be shamed by outside media. Derrek, do something with your connections. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Checking degrees is NOT the issue. Who gives a rat's rear-end if the degree is legit or not! The problem is NOT degrees...the problem is some bad people out there. Same as in korea...we all know already about koreans who are buying degrees, etc...are koreans protesting, whining and crying about that? No.
You have koreans who are child molesters as well...any reports? No. It's only on foreigners. You have koreans who are bad teachers also...any reports about them on TV? No. Again...it's about foreigners.
Degree checking has nothing to do with the real issues.
You have "teachers" who do have valid degrees and cause just as many problems as non degree holders. Same as in China, Japan and elsewhere. Look at Canada, the U.S., and Australia and around the world...degrees do not prevent someone from being a jerk, a pedophilia, or prevent them from sleeping with students. Look at korea��what..last week it was reported that some 600 high school /middle school girls were arrested for prostitution!
Most of the customers are korean men! You mean to tell me that not a single korean male middle or high school teacher has never had sex with their student?!?!?
I am sure that a few korean males teachers have had sex with students. Not all��but some��meaning��koreans are not the perfect race they want the world to think they are.
So again��checking degrees is not the issue nor is back ground checks. Many bad apples have not been caught and have no criminal record. Sure��background checks would catch some bad apples��but not all. Besides��if a person was arrested for what��smoking a joint��pays a fine, does a few days in jail��now has a criminal record and will now be prevented from teaching?!?!? Makes no sense. What��a person gets into a drunken bar fight��.someone falls down and is killed��the drunk goes to jail for ��murder�� and now can��t get a job because of it!?! Where does it all end.
It��s not immigrations job to check degrees just as in Canada or the U.S��.Immigration is not in the degree checking business. It is the responsibility of the employer to do that.
Most universities will not give out information over the phone anyway��they need a release form signed by the student. But of course��ways around that. Besides��how many people have degrees and can��t teach!! Look at Koreans who are teaching English! Thousands have degrees and can��t speak decent English!! I have met many PhD holding korean English teachers who also can��t hold a decent conversation in English. Same with doctors who have degrees and can��t practice good medicine. It��s not the degree��it��s the person. Teaching is not a job..it��s a calling. If it is not your calling��you will NEVER ever be a good teacher no matter how many degrees you have. |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Derrek wrote: |
My letter to the Chosun Ilbo:
Dear Kim Jae-eun,
As a former TV producer for a CBS affiliate in the USA, I am saddened and shocked at the horrible lack of any journalistic integrity in South Korea. There is an obvious anti-American agenda in this, as well as an anti-foreinger one.
I can't understand why more attention is not given to the fact that Hagwons and Korean Immigration are responsible for bringing the bad teachers to this country?
Instead of addressing the fact that no one does background checks on teachers, the Korean media is content with painting all teachers as evil, perverted, sex-crazed animals out to rape children.
I truly hope that the Korean community cleans up the ESL industry, however it must begin with the hagwon directors and immigration officers who are not checking degrees or the backgrounds of those coming here.
Degrees from the USA and Canada can be easily checked. All it takes is a phone call to the University they came from. There are also several agencies that can check for you, for a small fee of about $40. Why don't Koreans take responsibility for their own educational system and check out the teachers they are hiring? Similar police background checks can be performed as well.
Hagwon and school bosses take advantage of foreigners here all of the time. It's such a problem that the American (and I believe Canadian) Embassies use their websites to warn people from their country about accepting jobs here. I was one teacher who was taken advantage of here, as well. Nearly two years ago, I was hired by The Discovery School near Ichon in Seoul, and told I must work before my visa was approved, or else I would be kicked out of my apartment. Having no place to live, and being told not to worry and that my paperwork was "in process," I worked, and on my 2nd day of work, immigration officials raided the school. I was treated like a criminal, and nearly deported. The whole situation cost me nearly 3 million won. In the process, my boss told me that the immigration officials had attempted to bribe her into paying money so the problem would go away. My school took advantage of me, being a foreigner, and of my situtation, to use me to their monetary advantage. Then, when Immigration showed up, my school didn't want to help me as they promised they would.
Instead of searching for a remedy to the problem, the Korean media seems intent on painting foreigners as the entire problem. We in the foreigner community view these shows for what they are: paranoid, racist hate-speech aimed at foreigners. They do little to address the real problem: corrupt school owners and immigration officials who are in it for the quick buck.
Thankfully, I now work at a reputable private high school that tries to follow the E-2 Visa law as closely as possible.
Sincerely,
Derrek *****
Address, etc. included |
Derrek, your letter sucks. It starts of well but the in the body of the letter you basically affirm that the teachers in Korea suck (but its Koreans fault because they dont check enough) and you back this up by giving your own tale about how you were breaking the law. Finally you follow up with a strident attack against Korean racism that isnt supported by the body of the text.
I hope you havent sent it yet. |
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indiercj
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
Checking degrees is NOT the issue. Who gives a rat's rear-end if the degree is legit or not! The problem is NOT degrees...the problem is some bad people out there. Same as in korea...we all know already about koreans who are buying degrees, etc...are koreans protesting, whining and crying about that? No.
You have koreans who are child molesters as well...any reports? No. It's only on foreigners. You have koreans who are bad teachers also...any reports about them on TV? No. Again...it's about foreigners.
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Sorry to say this but... that was the most ridiculous post I've ever read on this board. OTL
It is really hard to believe what you say because I am Korean and I see those reports on bad fellow Koreans all the time on TV, newspapers, on the net, you name it.
You guys seem to be too selective getting news and information from Korean sources. Cheers~ |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Grim Ja wrote: |
| On the internet the discussion has turned away from unqualified English teachers. Now the population is disgusted and angry about korean women dating and marrying foreigners. There is a lot of hate on the web. Some say all the women are hores and deserve to be beat. There are photoshoped pictures of women with there heads cut off that say this should be down to the women. One writer says that the only way a female could ever redeem herself from dating a foreigner is to have sex with at least 100 korean guys. Basiclly this is not about the qualifications of ESL teachers. Even if Koreans only hired PHD's in linguisitics from MIT it still wouldn't be good enough. Koreans think that only losers come teach in Korea regardless of qualifications. Koreans hate other races unless they can get something out from them. There is nothing anyone can do to change this, but it seems that the news has stired up the emotions that have been kept inside for a long time. |
Well, to quote 'the Bum', this is on par to what I have studied for my current research in Sociolinguistics.
Ethnicity is generally viewed as a cultural phenomenon based on a common language and history, and race is viewed as a collectivity defined by phenotypic and genotypic characteristics. Koreans don't make the difference. Because of this, Koreans believe in a unitarian national past, which implies that they are all members of an extended family. The myth of common ancestry serves to define the Korean nation.
But to understand fully what has been the driving force behind the recent demonstrations of xenophobia, you have to draw some conclusions from social identity theory. In simple terms, SIT is concerned with inter-group processes. Here, members of the ingroup accentuate the differences with the outgroup to achieve (very important, in this case as they want Korea to be what it isn't (chaste, homogeneous, what not)) or maintain the distinctiveness of the ingroup. Ingroup receive a favorable bias in contrast to the outgroup (so, according to them, Koreans are pure and innocent while foreigners aren't). Ingroup identity is usually created to highlight positive traits.
Now, the interesting element of this theory is what it calls the 'black sheep effect'. When behaviours of undesirable in-group members are seen as a threat to the in-group identity, the black sheep effect comes into play to preserve the perceived positive traits of the in-group (hence, the attacks on the women who date foreigners). It also aims at enforcing conformity to the standards of the in-group. This imagined unity increases expectations for all members to adhere and conform to the perceived norms and customs (here being that Koreans are chaste and pure...bunk, really. Koreans are no more or no less pure than anyone else. Live a day in Korea and you'll notice the thousands upon thousands of love motels, the booming softcore porn industry. Heck, it's been reported in the media that Koreans are the some of the biggest, if not the top, surfers of internet porn amongst male and female groups in Asia. Korean classical literature and art is loaded with sexual symbolism, although Korean scholars are only beginning to allow themselves study this aspect of their culture). This can be done to purify the community, to cleanse foreign ideas and thoughts that are seen to contaminate the community. It may strenghten the identity of the in-group, but research has found that the creation of an out-group can lead to divisive consequences as in-group members become identified as undesirable.
In other words, they are painting themselves in a corner by saying all women who have had contact with foreigners are undesirable because young Korean women will see this as another attempt to control them (their in-group isn't complete if membership is limited to, or only claimed by, men). In any case, few Koreans are willing to define their community in such extreme terms. It will blow over in a short time. I give it a couple more months.
Interestingly enough, the North and South Korean governments have two different views of what is a 'black sheep'. South Korean usually considered communists as the black sheep, while North Koreans considered pro-Americans as the black sheep. This makes it impossible for the North and South to reunify. Could it be that some pro-North Korean groups are behind this attempt to reshape the in-group to conform with North Korean norms so that reunification occurs under their terms? Maybe not, but it sure would make a good novel. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
| It is really hard to believe what you say because I am Korean and I see those reports on bad fellow Koreans all the time on TV, newspapers, on the net, you name it. |
But the reports on "bad fellow Koreans" do not paint with a broad brush, do they now? In other words, if it is reported that Joe Kim has been arrested for ��������, neither the reporter nor the viewers extrapolate that incident into a broad suspicion and indictment of other Korean men.
With us, the situation is different.
| indiercj wrote: |
| You guys seem to be too selective getting news and information from Korean sources. Cheers~ |
What sources do you recommend? From everything I see, Korean print and television journalism is shoddy and unreliable. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Korean journalism? Let me tell you about last night's MBC 9 o'clock news program.
Two minutes were spent in serious reportage in Hong Kong on the fact that Hong Kong TV is now airing a two-year-old Korean drama.
Another serious report stated that scientists had definitely shown there is no correlation between head size and intelligence (important because this is a common belief among most Koreans, for whom phrenology is yet a living science).
MBC is one of Korea's major television networks and is widely viewed. Its news programming is supposed to be objective and reliable. |
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