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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Homer
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 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:46 am Post subject: |
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VanIslander,
I could not have said it better myself!
Well done mate. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| VanIslander, I could not have said it better myself! Well done mate. |
Thanks. It was the soju.  I gotta get to the point to remain conscious!
Also a few books on Korean history. (It's amazing what they've gone through.)
| Inkoreaforgood wrote: |
| Koreans are very emotionally patriotic. Anything with Korea vs Japan gets them going pretty quick. |
That's typical of many neighbouring nations.
Tell a Scotsman that he's a Brit, almost like an Englishman, and watch the sparks fly! Even accidentally make the association, and often get the same effect. |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| casey's moon wrote: |
| When it comes to other issues related to Japan, I tell him that my home country couldn't survive without tolerance. |
That's the difference: Korea wouldn't have survived as a distinct people with their own language if they were more tolerant.
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This may explain historical reasons for Koreans being so stubbornly irrational at times, but is this a good thing for contemporary Korean society? By being xenophobic, irrational, and dare I say a little backward, will this continue to keep Korea a "distinct" place? I suppose it will, after all it's been working for North Korea just fine.
As for the next generation of South Koreans -- and maybe even future generations of North Koreans -- I hope they grow up to be adjusted, happy adults in a safe and secure world where they can focus their abundant energy on more endearing things than hate, anger, and resentment. I hope they can be "distinct" in a positive way, rather than just being "distinct" for the sake of being "distinct". |
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peemil
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Location: Koowoompa
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Oh it happens.
But you're looking for a logical answer to your question, for which there is none.
See?
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It's not logical Captain. |
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peemil
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Location: Koowoompa
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Is this the same "Korean logic" that says that the rain is dirty and you should run around like morons trying to avoid it, but snow is clean because it is white and you should play in it? |
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Squid
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Location: Sunny Anyang
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes Peemil, the same logic which asks you to remove your shoes upon entering a house so you don't trail in dirt. |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Squid wrote: |
| Yes Peemil, the same logic which asks you to remove your shoes upon entering a house so you don't trail in dirt. |
Thats not just Korean logic, its just smart. Did you wear shoes in your house back home? |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| casey's moon wrote: |
| When it comes to other issues related to Japan, I tell him that my home country couldn't survive without tolerance. |
That's the difference: Korea wouldn't have survived as a distinct people with their own language if they were more tolerant.
It's like telling the Finns that they should have tolerated the Swedes more: tolerance toward a colonizing influence would kill many a language and culture. The Welsh ended up tolerating the English, and were assimilated as a result.
Those of us from countries built on the fragmented immigration of multiple peoples have values that reflect our own histories, even if we pretend they could be universally applied without caveats.
The Korean tendency toward extremes and distrust of authorities may not allow for a middle ground, which in this case, means the Koreans are holding their own ground, Dokdo, as they see it. |
VanIslander, I'm actually willing to take your word on this one. It actually makes some sort of historical sense. There's just one catch, though. If Koreans have the right to discriminate against any culture that they disagree with, then - in a much more subtle manner - Western expats have the right to disregard, avoid, or tactfully criticise any aspect of Korean culture that contradicts Western ideals of logic and morality. After all, if you are a cultural relativist, then you would agree that the door swings both ways. |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| casey's moon wrote: |
| peemil wrote: |
| How can you be too logical? |
Oh it happens.
But you're looking for a logical answer to your question, for which there is none.
See? |
The "survival-of-the-fittest" mentality, when taken too far, is a classic example of too much cold-hearted logic.
Apart from that extreme, self-preservation would be almost impossible without logic. |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
| casey's moon wrote: |
| When it comes to other issues related to Japan, I tell him that my home country couldn't survive without tolerance. |
That's the difference: Korea wouldn't have survived as a distinct people with their own language if they were more tolerant.
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This may explain historical reasons for Koreans being so stubbornly irrational at times, but is this a good thing for contemporary Korean society? By being xenophobic, irrational, and dare I say a little backward, will this continue to keep Korea a "distinct" place? I suppose it will, after all it's been working for North Korea just fine.
As for the next generation of South Koreans -- and maybe even future generations of North Koreans -- I hope they grow up to be adjusted, happy adults in a safe and secure world where they can focus their abundant energy on more endearing things than hate, anger, and resentment. I hope they can be "distinct" in a positive way, rather than just being "distinct" for the sake of being "distinct". |
Bosintang,
I couldn't have said it better myself!
Well done, mate.
(If it's good enough for Homer, then it's good enough for me  ) |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote: |
| If Koreans have the right to discriminate against any culture that they disagree with, then - in a much more subtle manner - Western expats have the right to disregard, avoid, or tactfully criticise any aspect of Korean culture that contradicts Western ideals of logic and morality. After all, if you are a cultural relativist, then you would agree that the door swings both ways. |
Huh? Are you saying you accept Koreans going to Canada or where ever you are from and they criticizing everything based on how things are done back in their home country?
Probably not. So, for your consistency, you should abandon that idea (which isn't cultural relativism, it's universalism and individual relativism).
We are guests in their country, and should accommodate the differences inherent in the ways of living here (at least that'd be a cultural relativist perspective - Koreans aren't usually of that ilk, by the way). |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote: |
| If Koreans have the right to discriminate against any culture that they disagree with, then - in a much more subtle manner - Western expats have the right to disregard, avoid, or tactfully criticise any aspect of Korean culture that contradicts Western ideals of logic and morality. After all, if you are a cultural relativist, then you would agree that the door swings both ways. |
Huh? Are you saying you accept Koreans going to Canada or where ever you are from and they criticizing everything based on how things are done back in their home country?
Probably not. So, for your consistency, you should abandon that idea (which isn't cultural relativism, it's universalism and individual relativism). |
Put it this way: I think it's a bad idea for expats to go out of their way to step on other's toes, especially when not on their own turf. Rather, I would advocate taking one step back when the situation defies your conscience. For example, if the boss invites you to a night of bosintang, then it's OK to politely decline, regardless of whatever loss of face results (it's up to you, of course). If the boss is becoming a ... disagreeable person (would that get past the swear filter? ) ... then it's OK to make your bow a little more shallow than before. If the taxi driver signals you not to put on the seatbelt because it insults his driving, and he whizzes through three red lights, it's OK to put your seatbelt on with a possibly audible "click". And, if you have had a bad day - anywhere in the world, including your own country - then it's OK to turn up on a message board and explain why you've had a bad day.
BTW, look to the left
Canada indeed ... |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
Huh? Are you saying you accept Koreans going to Canada or where ever you are from and they criticizing everything based on how things are done back in their home country?
Probably not. So, for your consistency, you should abandon that idea (which isn't cultural relativism, it's universalism and individual relativism).
We are guests in their country, and should accommodate the differences inherent in the ways of living here (at least that'd be a cultural relativist perspective - Koreans aren't usually of that ilk, by the way). |
Considering that you are a self confessed 'unilingual', I really have to wonder about exactly how you get your information about Koreans since you are unable to communicate with them. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| Considering that you are a self-confessed 'unilingual', I really have to wonder about exactly how you get your information about Koreans since you are unable to communicate with them. |
I live in a small town and go out three or four times a week with the locals who speak various degrees of English. In fact, my three best friends in Korea are Koreans who speak English as well. I have long discussions about what they think, their understanding of their country, their history and life in general. I like Koreans, and it shows. They want to be friendly and to practice their English, so I get invites often to go to dinner and I usually accept.
I'm sure if I lived in one of the big cities I might fall into the habit of hanging out with expats and exchanging dramatically exaggerated complaints about Korea and Koreans. (Koreans are quite critical of Korea and Koreans too, in their own ways, if you get past the surface).
That said, I also read whatever books I come across on Korean history, and have recommended a few here at Dave's.
I treat Korea and Koreans with the same respect I would those countries and peoples I'd meet while spending some time in South America or Africa. |
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Squid
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Location: Sunny Anyang
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:55 am Post subject: |
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I got me a stalker
I'm happy to distract the clowns and have fun reading the relevant comments. |
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