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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:55 am Post subject: |
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TY for the coherent reply. Lets clarify this now
diploma vs degree
Diploma = ceremonial document issued to commemorate the issuing of a degree or completion of studies
Degree = legal entity awared by state or authorized authorizing body in regard to a education accomplishment
Transcripts - a record education accomplishment that lists among other things courses and grades and dates thereof as well as dates of attendance and status of student or former student.
Generally, valid proof of degree comes from a signed original document form the schools record administrator or someone further up stating the fact. Record directors rarely sign these things, its done by machine and the machine also makes the notary stamp and it likely wont be
a regular stamp, but a special school stamp issued by the state.
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Registrar of your school certify the authenticity, while in the presence of the notary, who then notarizes it before both of you.
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There is nothing unusual about this, it is circuitous. "Certify" means verify then sign after that the notary witnesses the signing. Whether or not the student is there is immaterial. There might be a special law for notarizing degrees in Oregon but the idea that the student must be present is odd. What if the student is dead or incapacitated? No more notarized transcripts for the dead person?
The responsibilities of notary includes record keeping and single stamps are allowed for multiple party agreement documents. The parties can elect to allow multiple stamps if they want and the notary might be in a money making mood that day and cooperate. You generally don't need the one sig=one notary stamp formula for a valid notary stamp.
In the case |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Getting a copy of my degree notarized simply meant that I attested or swore to the effect that it was true copy of my degree. Then the consultate looked over my original degree and certified the notarized copy. I brought along an official sealed transcript, but they weren't interested in looking at it. Of course, they could have verified that I graduated by calling the university registrar. Did they? I doubt it.
What prevents anyone from using a fake but authentic-looking, diploma mill degree from instantdegrees.com? Nothing, as far as I can tell. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| hari seldon wrote: |
Getting a copy of my degree notarized simply meant that I attested or swore to the effect that it was true copy of my degree. Then the consultate looked over my original degree and certified the notarized copy. I brought along an official sealed transcript, but they weren't interested in looking at it. Of course, they could have verified that I graduated by calling the university registrar. Did they? I doubt it.
What prevents anyone from using a fake but authentic-looking, diploma mill degree from instantdegrees.com? Nothing, as far as I can tell. |
Jeezuz man, if you are going to advertise links like that on a site like this, you might as well post a MapQuest map of Khao San Road and circle where their degree vendors are, too.  |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
Getting a copy of my degree notarized simply meant that I attested or swore to the effect that it was true copy of my degree. Then the consultate looked over my original degree and certified the notarized copy. I brought along an official sealed transcript, but they weren't interested in looking at it. Of course, they could have verified that I graduated by calling the university registrar. Did they? I doubt it.
What prevents anyone from using a fake but authentic-looking, diploma mill degree from instantdegrees.com? Nothing, as far as I can tell. |
Jeezuz man, if you are going to advertise links like that on a site like this, you might as well post a MapQuest map of Khao San Road and circle where their degree vendors are, too. |
Why stop there? A nice, authentic-looking bogus degree can be express mailed to you for a few hundred dollars and is issued by a diploma mill called 'Buxton University' in London, England. That's according to three separate U.S. television news investigations:
http://www.nbc4i.com/news/3962400/detail.html
http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?S=2567661&nav=E8YvT9pg
http://www.woai.com/troubleshooters/story.aspx?content_id=9786AD9F-9742-448A-B78B-5C42B4241302 |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| So somehow, someway, you have convinced yourself that you are being responsible by giving non-degree holders browsing this site, some really big bones on where to buy fake degrees. Gotta love a man who lives on the cutting edge of logic. |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| So somehow, someway, you have convinced yourself that you are being responsible by giving non-degree holders browsing this site, some really big bones on where to buy fake degrees. Gotta love a man who lives on the cutting edge of logic. |
Aw, c'mon. We both know it's easy to find fake degrees on the internet. Anyone who cannot find a fake degree on the internet isn't qualified to hold a fake degree! 
What I can't figure out is why immigration thinks a fancy piece of paper is evidence of a legitimate degree. |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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@#%&!
Last edited by hari seldon on Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| hari seldon wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| So somehow, someway, you have convinced yourself that you are being responsible by giving non-degree holders browsing this site, some really big bones on where to buy fake degrees. Gotta love a man who lives on the cutting edge of logic. |
Aw, c'mon. We both know it's easy to find fake degrees on the internet. Anyone who cannot find a fake degree on the internet isn't qualified to hold a fake degree! |
But you're assuming that everyone is net savvy, and aware that there is that sort of online market for them to search for to begin with. If everyone was in the know about such things as you seem to imply, then there wouldn't be any links for you to drop about TV shows raising public awareness of fake degree mills, as the media would be putting out stuff that would raise a lot more surprised eyebrows and get more ratings. You can defend the foot in your mouth all you want, but you and I both know, deep down, that posting public stuff like that on a job-seeking board isn't very responsible.
| hari seldon wrote: |
What I can't figure out is why immigration thinks a fancy piece of paper is evidence of a legitimate degree. |
Agreed. Same goes for the US immigration. I don't know why they think that a fancy piece of paper is evidence of a legitimate degree, to meet the requirements for business non-immigrant visa applicants under the NAFTA agreement.
Canadians can get a one-year TN visa right at the airport or US border, in under 15 minutes, if they show their degree and resume that is related to their intended profession in the states, along with the letter of employment from their US employer. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:54 am Post subject: |
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One of the clerks at USQ was a Justice of the Peace and signed off on my transcripts and degree for the Taiwanese Govt.
When I was in Bangkok last summer, I went down to Kao San Road and met a guy who was selling fake CELTA/TESOL diplomas, degrees and transcripts, etc.
He wouldn't show me anything until I paid so I never actually got to see them.
He told me the schools he had transcripts and diplomas for.
Cost: B4,500 for transcripts and a degree from a Canadian university. |
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JacktheCat
Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:04 am Post subject: |
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I think it would be rather hard to counterfeit a CELTA; not impossible, but very hard.
My CELTA is numbered and printed on special non-photocopyable paper with a holographic seal imbedded in it.
My (real) university diploma. on the other hand, is on low grade paper and looks like it was run off a cheap color printer.
Last edited by JacktheCat on Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| So somehow, someway, you have convinced yourself that you are being responsible by giving non-degree holders browsing this site, some really big bones on where to buy fake degrees. Gotta love a man who lives on the cutting edge of logic. |
Aw, c'mon. We both know it's easy to find fake degrees on the internet. Anyone who cannot find a fake degree on the internet isn't 'qualified' to hold a fake degree! |
But you're assuming that everyone [here] is net savvy... |
Yep. I'm assuming that nearly all of the teachers in Korea found their jobs through the internet. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| hari seldon wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| So somehow, someway, you have convinced yourself that you are being responsible by giving non-degree holders browsing this site, some really big bones on where to buy fake degrees. Gotta love a man who lives on the cutting edge of logic. |
Aw, c'mon. We both know it's easy to find fake degrees on the internet. Anyone who cannot find a fake degree on the internet isn't 'qualified' to hold a fake degree! |
But you're assuming that everyone [here] is net savvy... |
Yep. I'm assuming that nearly all of the teachers in Korea found their jobs through the internet. |
Fair enough. Because assuming that, would disclude all of the teachers that come through classified ads, job fairs, on-campus posting, and other off-line advertising. There are some recruiters that do this exclusively, and pull a huge response. I know one that was pulling so many resumes from offline advertising that he opted out of direct recruiting to the school and has now become a facilitator of teachers, where he only deals with recruiters and negotiating placement percentages with them.
Besides, as for everyone at this place, who we have no idea who is browsing at any moment, given that there are usually far more unregistered viewers than registered ones, if they came across this site from googling, or they heard about the URL from a friend, or if they clicked through from an article that they are reading. Just because someone might hop on the net to check email and browse a few blogs or news sites for an hour or so a week, doesn't mean that person suddenly wakes up with the awareness about identity fraud, forged documents, and diploma mills, and the razor-sharp navigation skills on where to look for it on the net.
The world is full of people different from you and from each other. Think out of the box and try not to assume and project your own perspective onto others too much. Because next thing you know, you might find yourself posting links on where people can buy illegal documents and commit fraud, under the pretense that everybody knows about such things, anyway. |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| So somehow, someway, you have convinced yourself that you are being responsible by giving non-degree holders browsing this site, some really big bones on where to buy fake degrees. Gotta love a man who lives on the cutting edge of logic. |
Aw, c'mon. We both know it's easy to find fake degrees on the internet. Anyone who cannot find a fake degree on the internet isn't 'qualified' to hold a fake degree! |
But you're assuming that everyone [here] is net savvy... |
Yep. I'm assuming that nearly all of the teachers in Korea found their jobs through the internet. |
Fair enough. Because assuming that, would disclude all of the teachers that come through classified ads, job fairs, on-campus posting, and other off-line advertising. There are some recruiters that do this exclusively, and pull a huge response. I know one that was pulling so many resumes from offline advertising that he opted out of direct recruiting to the school and has now become a facilitator of teachers, where he only deals with recruiters and negotiating placement percentages with them.
Besides, as for everyone at this place, who we have no idea who is browsing at any moment, given that there are usually far more unregistered viewers than registered ones, if they came across this site from googling, or they heard about the URL from a friend, or if they clicked through from an article that they are reading. Just because someone might hop on the net to check email and browse a few blogs or news sites for an hour or so a week, doesn't mean that person suddenly wakes up with the awareness about identity fraud, forged documents, and diploma mills, and the razor-sharp navigation skills on where to look for it on the net. I used to have teachers email questions all the time, with 'Can I work without a degree? What can I do? Am I screwed? I heard that you can buy some fake degrees in the black markets of some countries, blah-blah-blah'.
The world is full of people different from you and from each other. Think out of the box and try not to assume and project too much. Because next thing you know, you might find yourself posting links on where people can buy illegal documents and commit fraud, under the pretense that everybody knows about such things, anyway. |
It's obvious from the recent uproar that Koreans read what we post here. And I favor institutionalizing enhanced screening of teachers, including transcript verification and criminal record checks. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Having said that, would it then be fair to say, that posting the URL of a site where one can buy a fake degree, on a site that is frequented by jobseekers who may not have degrees, but are looking for a way in, is counterproductive to your calling for the enhanced screening of teachers? |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| Having said that, would it then be fair to say, that posting the URL of a site where one can buy a fake degree, on a site that is frequented by jobseekers who may not have degrees, but are looking for a way in, is counterproductive to your calling for the enhanced screening of teachers? |
There's no way to stuff the internet genie back into the bottle. This information is freely available and its repercussions need to be aired openly, not suppressed. |
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