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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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 Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Blind Willie wrote: |
I find the bigotry-justifying one upmanship in this thread to be Olympian in it's spirit.
Special Olympian... |
Do you have an opinion of your own? Or do you just get off from sitting on the sidelines and slagging off veryone elses views.
For me this has ben an interesting debate with good points made on both sides ( and Gwangjuboy/Dogbert just about win on points ). |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
Yeah, I figured you didn't read them. I guess stats are just too foreign for you.
I hear McDonald's is hiring. |
Are you even smart enough to see the contradiction between your statement that you have no problem with legal Mexican immigrants and your gripe about generations of Mexican immigrants on welfare? The ones getting welfare do so because they are legal or their kids are legal.
You, in your typical kyopo racism against the people who managed to build a country and society that attracted you and your parents to immigrate to, can continue to make jibes about me, but I have a better education than you and I make more money than you.
And since I have lived in California at least fifteen times longer than you have, I can state for certainty that it was a better place before you arrogant people showed up fleeing your Confucian overpopulation. |
Maybe you do have a better job and salary than I do, so if you're that smart, why do you ignore the stats and facts I present? And say what you will about your OWN opinions about Koreans, but well, Koreans in LA do NOT suck off the welfare system and instead build businesses, bring in commerce and revitalize areas of the city.
And I wonder if you've lived in the areas where a lot of Mexicans do, as they turn into a ghetto every freakin' place they inhabit, raise the crime rate (they have the 2nd highest incarceration rate after blacks) and others. Your tendency to gloss over things is legendary. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
Maybe you do have a better job and salary than I do, so if you're that smart, why do you ignore the stats and facts I present? And say what you will about your OWN opinions about Koreans, but well, Koreans in LA do NOT suck off the welfare system and instead build businesses, bring in commerce and revitalize areas of the city.
And I wonder if you've lived in the areas where a lot of Mexicans do, as they turn into a ghetto every freakin' place they inhabit, raise the crime rate (they have the 2nd highest incarceration rate after blacks) and others. Your tendency to gloss over things is legendary. |
1. Not all Koreans in L.A. or other areas avoid the welfare system or are entrepreneurial successes. http://www.nfg.org/cotb/30cs10.htm Believe it or not, there are Korean-Americans who receive welfare benefits; I've known some personally. There's also this:
"Korean Americans are protesting California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's plans to suspend a program that provides health care to children whose parents have no health insurance, reports the Korea Times in Los Angeles.
Schwarzenegger proposes to cut off enrollment to the state's Healthy Families program in Jan. 2004. In Los Angeles county, 7,545 Korean families have registered with the program, and an additional 11,964 Korean families from throughout the state are enrolled in the program. Approximately 281 Korean families are signing up with the program each month according to the report. If the proposal passes, more than 3,000 Korean families will be without health care, according to Korean activists.
Korean immigrants are also fighting the governor's plan to cut funding for the Cash Assistance Program for Immigrants (CAPI), CalWorks, a welfare to work program and food stamps."
http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=11919
2. Like it or not, Mexicans (And why do you continue to single out Mexicans, like it's an epithet? Don't you also mean to inveigle against Salvadorenos, Guatemalans, and Hondurans too?) do much necessary work that people of other races/citizenships/ethnicities prefer not to do. Unfortunately, they also join gangs and commit violent crimes. Whether they do so at a greater rate than Korean immigrants I'll let you provide a stat for.
3. Like it or not, California was once part of Mexico, and Mexicans have been a part of the state since its existence. In contrast, the bulk of Koreans in the state have arrived since 1980.
4. There are very many illegal Korean immigrants in California. I don't think they have much cause to complain about other illegal immigrants in that regard.
5. I've lived in Koreatown in L.A., and I don't see that Koreans have done much to make it livable. Possibly that's because successful Korean-Americans are smart enough to live in nice areas, even though they may have businesses in crappy areas. What areas have Korean-Americans gentrified? For that matter, yes, I have lived where there are many Hispanics as well. You say they make places ghettoes, there are studies that have shown at least where Hispanics replace blacks (as in Compton), they have had a positive impact in many ways.
6. Many Korean-Americans like to measure their impact on the economy solely in terms of economic impact. While it is great that they have made it easier and cheaper to have one's clothes dry cleaned, it ignores that fact that a near doubling of our state's population in only twenty years (not all attributable to Koreans, true) has had a tremendously negative impact on livability -- depletion of natural resources (e.g., water and farmland), social problems due to demographic change (do Korean immigrants assimilate well or do they tend to remain in isolated ethnic enclaves?), increased traffic, increased pollution, etc. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
Maybe you do have a better job and salary than I do, so if you're that smart, why do you ignore the stats and facts I present? And say what you will about your OWN opinions about Koreans, but well, Koreans in LA do NOT suck off the welfare system and instead build businesses, bring in commerce and revitalize areas of the city.
And I wonder if you've lived in the areas where a lot of Mexicans do, as they turn into a ghetto every freakin' place they inhabit, raise the crime rate (they have the 2nd highest incarceration rate after blacks) and others. Your tendency to gloss over things is legendary. |
1. Not all Koreans in L.A. or other areas avoid the welfare system or are entrepreneurial successes. http://www.nfg.org/cotb/30cs10.htm Believe it or not, there are Korean-Americans who receive welfare benefits; I've known some personally. There's also this:
"Korean Americans are protesting California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's plans to suspend a program that provides health care to children whose parents have no health insurance, reports the Korea Times in Los Angeles.
Schwarzenegger proposes to cut off enrollment to the state's Healthy Families program in Jan. 2004. In Los Angeles county, 7,545 Korean families have registered with the program, and an additional 11,964 Korean families from throughout the state are enrolled in the program. Approximately 281 Korean families are signing up with the program each month according to the report. If the proposal passes, more than 3,000 Korean families will be without health care, according to Korean activists.
Korean immigrants are also fighting the governor's plan to cut funding for the Cash Assistance Program for Immigrants (CAPI), CalWorks, a welfare to work program and food stamps."
http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=11919
2. Like it or not, Mexicans (And why do you continue to single out Mexicans, like it's an epithet? Don't you also mean to inveigle against Salvadorenos, Guatemalans, and Hondurans too?) do much necessary work that people of other races/citizenships/ethnicities prefer not to do. Unfortunately, they also join gangs and commit violent crimes. Whether they do so at a greater rate than Korean immigrants I'll let you provide a stat for.
3. Like it or not, California was once part of Mexico, and Mexicans have been a part of the state since its existence. In contrast, the bulk of Koreans in the state have arrived since 1980.
4. There are very many illegal Korean immigrants in California. I don't think they have much cause to complain about other illegal immigrants in that regard.
5. I've lived in Koreatown in L.A., and I don't see that Koreans have done much to make it livable. Possibly that's because successful Korean-Americans are smart enough to live in nice areas, even though they may have businesses in crappy areas. What areas have Korean-Americans gentrified? For that matter, yes, I have lived where there are many Hispanics as well. You say they make places ghettoes, there are studies that have shown at least where Hispanics replace blacks (as in Compton), they have had a positive impact in many ways.
6. Many Korean-Americans like to measure their impact on the economy solely in terms of economic impact. While it is great that they have made it easier and cheaper to have one's clothes dry cleaned, it ignores that fact that a near doubling of our state's population in only twenty years (not all attributable to Koreans, true) has had a tremendously negative impact on livability -- depletion of natural resources (e.g., water and farmland), social problems due to demographic change (do Korean immigrants assimilate well or do they tend to remain in isolated ethnic enclaves?), increased traffic, increased pollution, etc. |
Geez, yet again you ignore facts. First off, I know there are Korean illegals in the US, but they number only 180,000, as opposed to over 10 million Mexican illegals. And didn't I say I favor ALL illegals being deported, not just Mexican? DUH!
Yeah, some Koreans do get public care but at a far more minute rate than the Mexicans. Didn't you read the stat that says 41.2 percent of Mexicans get some form of public assistance, compared to 14 percent of native Californians.
So what's your point about Mexicans once owning part of CA? Koreans once owned part of Manchuria before but don't gripe about it. There is an openly hostile group, La Raza, that publicly talks about taking back the part of CA that used to be part of Mexico. Yeah, GREAT set of people to allow in, eh? Second, the Koreans went to CA in the 1980s and the Mexicans have been there a lot longer, but guess who is working for whom, mostly? I know you hate Confucianism but well, Confucianism does teach the value of hard work and scholarship, right?
Here some other stats from the book Mexifornia:
-- The uninvited who have flooded into California have all but filled our newly built prisons; nearly one quarter of the inmates are from Mexico.
-- Nearly a third of all drug trafficking arrests involve illegal aliens.
-- The Labor Department attributes 50 percent of real wage declines to the influx of cheap immigrant labor.
More interesting stuff from the same book:
Tragically, 37 percent of all births to Hispanic immigrants are illegitimate. The illegitimacy rate among American-born Mexican mothers is now 48 percent. Census data show median household income for the nation's Hispanics dropped 5.1 percent, yet recent immigrants from Mexico and their U.S.-born children under 18 make up only 4.2 percent of America's population and represent 10.2 percent of our poor. Hispanics account for 24 percent of America's impoverished - that's up 8 percentage points since 1985.
Unfortunately, the future is dismal. Out of every 100 Hispanics who enter California high schools, 40 drop out and of the remaining 60, fewer than four will go on to college. Only 7 percent of all Mexican-Americans currently hold a BA.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/6/21/14408.shtml
You might want to find some better stats and examples, and stop being such an apologist for Mexicans. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not being an apologist for Mexicans, I'm merely saying that from the perspective of many, too many immigrants is simply too many immigrants, whether they be Mexican or Korean or other. I guess in a way it's good to see the immigrant groups antagonizing each other rather than uniting against us, but it's still somewhat ludicrous.
Anyhow, hooray for your stats. Do you have a solution or plan in mind or are you just bellyaching? |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
I'm not being an apologist for Mexicans, I'm merely saying that from the perspective of many, too many immigrants is simply too many immigrants, whether they be Mexican or Korean or other. I guess in a way it's good to see the immigrant groups antagonizing each other rather than uniting against us, but it's still somewhat ludicrous.
Anyhow, hooray for your stats. Do you have a solution or plan in mind or are you just bellyaching? |
And hooray for your logic of "I know a few Mexicans who aren't like that, so the stats must be false, bla bla bla." One solution that I've freakin' repeated before and you keep forgetting is to allow in immigrants who will contribute to the country rather than live off of it, steal, rape and kill in it or are openly hostile to it. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
I'm not being an apologist for Mexicans, I'm merely saying that from the perspective of many, too many immigrants is simply too many immigrants, whether they be Mexican or Korean or other. I guess in a way it's good to see the immigrant groups antagonizing each other rather than uniting against us, but it's still somewhat ludicrous.
Anyhow, hooray for your stats. Do you have a solution or plan in mind or are you just bellyaching? |
And hooray for your logic of "I know a few Mexicans who aren't like that, so the stats must be false, bla bla bla." One solution that I've freakin' repeated before and you keep forgetting is to allow in immigrants who will contribute to the country rather than live off of it, steal, rape and kill in it or are openly hostile to it. |
My point is that not every Korean immigrant contributes to the state -- some are on welfare, some are criminals. Yet we let them in too. And Jesus H. Christ, do you really think that Koreans are any less hostile toward us gringos than Mexicans?
And I'm going to say this again: You cannot say that an immigrant "contributes to the country", without taking also into account the burden on natural resources and decrease in quality of life that is brought on by overcrowding, not to mention the problems caused by lack of assimilation. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
I'm not being an apologist for Mexicans, I'm merely saying that from the perspective of many, too many immigrants is simply too many immigrants, whether they be Mexican or Korean or other. I guess in a way it's good to see the immigrant groups antagonizing each other rather than uniting against us, but it's still somewhat ludicrous.
Anyhow, hooray for your stats. Do you have a solution or plan in mind or are you just bellyaching? |
And hooray for your logic of "I know a few Mexicans who aren't like that, so the stats must be false, bla bla bla." One solution that I've freakin' repeated before and you keep forgetting is to allow in immigrants who will contribute to the country rather than live off of it, steal, rape and kill in it or are openly hostile to it. |
My point is that not every Korean immigrant contributes to the state -- some are on welfare, some are criminals. Yet we let them in too. And Jesus H. Christ, do you really think that Koreans are any less hostile toward us gringos than Mexicans?
And I'm going to say this again: You cannot say that an immigrant "contributes to the country", without taking also into account the burden on natural resources and decrease in quality of life that is brought on by overcrowding, not to mention the problems caused by lack of assimilation. |
Geez, you said this lame thing before. Some Koreans break the law, some go to jail, bla bla bla. DO YOU EVER CHECK THE STATS, DUDE? What is the rate of crime for Koreans and that for Mexicans? The same in terms of home ownership, self-sufficiency and education?
As to how Mexicans "love" their host country, here's another excerpt:
Selma is 60 percent to 90 percent Hispanic. No one knows how many of these people are citizens. Hanson rarely hears English spoken and almost every car displays a Mexican flag or decal.
And Koreans have no desire to claim part of CA as their own, unlike the La Raza group.
Dogbert, get some remedial help.[/b] |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Don't you think it's a bit sad to come to a country and immediately start hating on those who aren't like you? Did the Yaya family get off the boat and immediately start cursing the "mekjak saramdeul" at the dinner table?
Do you see any of us North Americans in Korea haterizing on the South and Southeast Asian po' folk and DDD workers here?
I'm going to tell you again: mass immigration from both Asia and Latin America has caused a painfully noticeable decrease in the quality of life for Californians in the past thirty years. For us, comparing Korean immigrants to Mexican immigrants is akin to "dotori kijaegi" -- i.e., a truly pointless comparison. End of argument. |
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Harin
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: Garden of Eden
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:56 am Post subject: |
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i was going to write something, but i thought to myself that i had better shut up.
all i am going to say is that 'let's not forget thousands of korean students who come to the states, let alone korean immigrants. south Korea has been the third-largest source of international students enrolled in US colleges and universities. have you checked out the birth rate among korean students? i suggest you do cuz they seem to love their opportunity to give american citizenship to their future babies. they hardly pay taxes due to their low income or no income, but they all seem to know about WIC. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
Don't you think it's a bit sad to come to a country and immediately start hating on those who aren't like you? Did the Yaya family get off the boat and immediately start cursing the "mekjak saramdeul" at the dinner table?
Do you see any of us North Americans in Korea haterizing on the South and Southeast Asian po' folk and DDD workers here?
I'm going to tell you again: mass immigration from both Asia and Latin America has caused a painfully noticeable decrease in the quality of life for Californians in the past thirty years. For us, comparing Korean immigrants to Mexican immigrants is akin to "dotori kijaegi" -- i.e., a truly pointless comparison. End of argument. |
So much for your argument, or lack thereof. And oh, WHO IS THE RACIST NOW, IMPLYING I CAME TO THE US ON A BOAT? Did you rape Korean female students when you were in Korea? Of course, all white guys do that, right?
And uh, did you just make up the word "haterizing?" So much for your superior "education."
And I'll tell you again, READ MY STATS, and if you can finally admit you can't, please seek remedial help immediately. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
Don't you think it's a bit sad to come to a country and immediately start hating on those who aren't like you? Did the Yaya family get off the boat and immediately start cursing the "mekjak saramdeul" at the dinner table?
Do you see any of us North Americans in Korea haterizing on the South and Southeast Asian po' folk and DDD workers here?
I'm going to tell you again: mass immigration from both Asia and Latin America has caused a painfully noticeable decrease in the quality of life for Californians in the past thirty years. For us, comparing Korean immigrants to Mexican immigrants is akin to "dotori kijaegi" -- i.e., a truly pointless comparison. End of argument. |
So much for your argument, or lack thereof. And oh, WHO IS THE RACIST NOW, IMPLYING I CAME TO THE US ON A BOAT? Did you rape Korean female students when you were in Korea? Of course, all white guys do that, right?
And uh, did you just make up the word "haterizing?" So much for your superior "education."
And I'll tell you again, READ MY STATS, and if you can finally admit you can't, please seek remedial help immediately. |
I find it hilarious that this "American" (you are not a real American) is bashing other immigrants when he sucked of the teet which he is now depriving other would be success stories of. Your arguments that the US was built on immigration are laughable. Immigration in the US right until the 1800's was minimal,(including catholics) white protestants did the groundwork. The immigrants just fed of it. I am surprised that you are writing so much about something you know very little about. Even the most basic research would have shown that the US was not built on immigration and multi culturalism. Koreans have contributed extremely little to the US in the big swing of things. Thank the WASPS for the opportunities the Koreans had in the US, and don't condemn other immigrants for wanting the same chance that you and your family had. If you read the right books the truth will be unearthed. Start with "Who Are We : The Challenges to America's National Identity" by Samuel P. Huntington. And don't assume that you are any closer to being an American than any Brit;you are not. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
Don't you think it's a bit sad to come to a country and immediately start hating on those who aren't like you? Did the Yaya family get off the boat and immediately start cursing the "mekjak saramdeul" at the dinner table?
Do you see any of us North Americans in Korea haterizing on the South and Southeast Asian po' folk and DDD workers here?
I'm going to tell you again: mass immigration from both Asia and Latin America has caused a painfully noticeable decrease in the quality of life for Californians in the past thirty years. For us, comparing Korean immigrants to Mexican immigrants is akin to "dotori kijaegi" -- i.e., a truly pointless comparison. End of argument. |
So much for your argument, or lack thereof. And oh, WHO IS THE RACIST NOW, IMPLYING I CAME TO THE US ON A BOAT? Did you rape Korean female students when you were in Korea? Of course, all white guys do that, right?
And uh, did you just make up the word "haterizing?" So much for your superior "education."
And I'll tell you again, READ MY STATS, and if you can finally admit you can't, please seek remedial help immediately. |
I find it hilarious that this "American" (you are not a real American) is bashing other immigrants when he sucked of the teet which he is now depriving other would be success stories of. Your arguments that the US was built on immigration are laughable. Immigration in the US right until the 1800's was minimal,(including catholics) white protestants did the groundwork. The immigrants just fed of it. I am surprised that you are writing so much about something you know very little about. Even the most basic research would have shown that the US was not built on immigration and multi culturalism. Koreans have contributed extremely little to the US in the big swing of things. Thank the WASPS for the opportunities the Koreans had in the US, and don't condemn other immigrants for wanting the same chance that you and your family had. If you read the right books the truth will be unearthed. Start with "Who Are We : The Challenges to America's National Identity" by Samuel P. Huntington. And don't assume that you are any closer to being an American than any Brit;you are not. |
And what you contributed to Korea other than being another burger flipper? Perhaps George Washington wasn't Korean, but Koreans fill the ranks of America's entrepreneurs and small biz owners and are overrepresented at universities. It's obvious YOU don't know what you are talking about, but yeah, typical Brit response, what else would I expect? I presented my case, and it seems facts and stats are foreign to both you and Dumbert.
I think too much oil and fumes have clouded your head (perhaps you two work at the same fast food branch?). Please brush your teeth. |
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dzeisons
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:28 am Post subject: |
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ya ya wrote:
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| Tell you what, let's leave it there, but Asia is already overcrowded as it is, plus they are too monocultural to allow in and accept immigrants. It's like Australia, I'd never emigrate there given the bad treatment of minorities |
Have you ever been to australia yaya? I think that your personality rather than your ethnicity may be influencing how people treat ya. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| And what you contributed to Korea other than being another burger flipper? |
Yep! I am a burger flipper working in lotteria. I am a super duper teacher but I decided to waste my talents and my decent degree flipping burgers. On the plus side, I am hoping that my intermediate Korean will receive a boost in such an environment.
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| Koreans fill the ranks of America's entrepreneurs and small biz owners and are overrepresented at universities. |
Even if this was true (I have yet to see a link) it isn't really central to the debate about how the US was built. Until the mid 1800's immigration was almost zilch, yet the foundations of most powerful nation on earth were already firmly in place. This had nothing to do with immigrants, and there is no evidence to suggest that things would have been any different if the constituents of the US's population had remained white protestants.
Bring on the facts!
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| It's obvious YOU don't know what you are talking about, but yeah, typical Brit response, what else would I expect? |
Rock on amateur insults! Curiously, were you not condemning bigotry earlier in this thread? Usually, when the facts come out I concede gracefully and thank my combatant for enlightening me.
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| I think too much oil and fumes have clouded your head. Please brush your teeth. |
A little more bigotry for good measure. It's even more amateurish than your last goof though. |
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