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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Saxiif wrote: |
That depends what you mean by "speak" English. Quite a lot of Koreans "speak" English.
As far as Chinglish goes. What's wrong with "no face," hasn't that been adopted in mainstream English for quite a while. Its interesting how many English words have been borrowed by other languages, but I don't see how this is going to change mainstream English (after all we borrowed tons of words from the French but I don't think that the French have adopted any of the ways that we've changed the meanings of French-derived words such as "mansion"). Well except for English teachers I guess, but I don't think that there's enoug of us to make "aircon" etc. standard usage. |
My friends in the UK say *aircon*  |
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thorin
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Saxiif wrote: |
| I don't think that there's enoug of us to make "aircon" etc. standard usage. |
It's not warm enoug to make aircon standard usage yet, but just you wait until July and August! |
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Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| tzechuk wrote: |
| Saxiif wrote: |
That depends what you mean by "speak" English. Quite a lot of Koreans "speak" English.
As far as Chinglish goes. What's wrong with "no face," hasn't that been adopted in mainstream English for quite a while. Its interesting how many English words have been borrowed by other languages, but I don't see how this is going to change mainstream English (after all we borrowed tons of words from the French but I don't think that the French have adopted any of the ways that we've changed the meanings of French-derived words such as "mansion"). Well except for English teachers I guess, but I don't think that there's enoug of us to make "aircon" etc. standard usage. |
My friends in the UK say *aircon* |
Dear gods, soon we'll be all talking about our love for "glamour." |
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Tiberious aka Sparkles
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| tzechuk wrote: |
| Saxiif wrote: |
That depends what you mean by "speak" English. Quite a lot of Koreans "speak" English.
As far as Chinglish goes. What's wrong with "no face," hasn't that been adopted in mainstream English for quite a while. Its interesting how many English words have been borrowed by other languages, but I don't see how this is going to change mainstream English (after all we borrowed tons of words from the French but I don't think that the French have adopted any of the ways that we've changed the meanings of French-derived words such as "mansion"). Well except for English teachers I guess, but I don't think that there's enoug of us to make "aircon" etc. standard usage. |
My friends in the UK say *aircon* |
I'm all about the a/c.
Sparkles*_* |
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Blind Willie
Joined: 05 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Tiberious aka Sparkles wrote: |
I'm all about the a/c.
Sparkles*_* |
Cool as ice. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| little mixed girl wrote: |
language is in constant change. anyone that thinks that 'foreigner english' is 'ruining' the language is a fool.
english has more non-native english words than native english words 
somebody's a prescriptive linguist  |
So do you think that Westerners should learn the way that Chinese people speak English? What the article suggests is that countries like Korea will literally translate their own language into English. For example expressions and phrases such as, "have you got a promise" and "windy boy" would not be corrected by Korean English teachers. Koreans using these sentences would be greeted with puzzled faces anywhere in the West. I thought the idea of learning a language was to communicate with the people who speak it. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Good point. Sometimes ya get the feeling they are using it only for themselves.... like in conversations where you hear English words scattered in, between two people who do not speak English.
Or something like thinking it's OK to pronounce words the way we would write them in Hangul.... So that John and Joan and zone are all the same. |
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little mixed girl
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: shin hyesung's bed~
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| So do you think that Westerners should learn the way that Chinese people speak English? What the article suggests is that countries like Korea will literally translate their own language into English. For example expressions and phrases such as, "have you got a promise" and "windy boy" would not be corrected by Korean English teachers. Koreans using these sentences would be greeted with puzzled faces anywhere in the West. I thought the idea of learning a language was to communicate with the people who speak it. |
most ppl have some L1 transfer to L2. this is not going to 'ruin' the english language.
in my linguistics class last yr the teacher handed us a paper with 10 writing excepts from 10 different 'hong kong' students, then other ppl got the same paper but were told they were from 'english speaking' students, then the 'correctness' results were compared.
ppl who thought the writings were by hong kong students tended to find more errors.
in the end it turned out that the excerpts were from dickens, and other famous english writers.
the point is that there's always going to be some confusion between people who even speak the same language.
'someone nicked my rubber' sounds like 'someone stole me condom' to an american, but to a british person it sounds like something happened to an eraser.
there are regional differences in the states. i say 'pop' some west coast people say 'soda'.
if the foreigner says something totally strange then (if the english speaker is a good person) the english speaker can explain to them why that doesn't sound right in english.
i can communicate with my co-workers from kosovo and china even though their english isn't perfect. maybe they'll say 'i am go to the store' instead of 'i'll go to the store', but i get what they are saying...
heck, i don't see english speakers trying to pronounce 'hiroshima', 'karaoke' or other words correctly  |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| little mixed girl wrote: |
| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| So do you think that Westerners should learn the way that Chinese people speak English? What the article suggests is that countries like Korea will literally translate their own language into English. For example expressions and phrases such as, "have you got a promise" and "windy boy" would not be corrected by Korean English teachers. Koreans using these sentences would be greeted with puzzled faces anywhere in the West. I thought the idea of learning a language was to communicate with the people who speak it. |
most ppl have some L1 transfer to L2. this is not going to 'ruin' the english language.
in my linguistics class last yr the teacher handed us a paper with 10 writing excepts from 10 different 'hong kong' students, then other ppl got the same paper but were told they were from 'english speaking' students, then the 'correctness' results were compared.
ppl who thought the writings were by hong kong students tended to find more errors.
in the end it turned out that the excerpts were from *beep*, and other famous english writers.
the point is that there's always going to be some confusion between people who even speak the same language.
'someone nicked my rubber' sounds like 'someone stole me condom' to an american, but to a british person it sounds like something happened to an eraser.
there are regional differences in the states. i say 'pop' some west coast people say 'soda'.
if the foreigner says something totally strange then (if the english speaker is a good person) the english speaker can explain to them why that doesn't sound right in english.
i can communicate with my co-workers from kosovo and china even though their english isn't perfect. maybe they'll say 'i am go to the store' instead of 'i'll go to the store', but i get what they are saying...
heck, i don't see english speakers trying to pronounce 'hiroshima', 'karaoke' or other words correctly |
Anymore strawmen? Pronouciation and minor grammatical errors are irrelevant. We are refering to the literal translation of Korean into English which would result in statements like, "have you got a promise" "fire egg" and "windy boy." These are only a fraction of the statements which if not corrected would be thrown into conversations with Westerners. In the West such statements would be met with puzzled faces, but you seem to think it's okay. Rock on amateur hour. Next time you reply be sure to rely on something other than strawmen arguments. |
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