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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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 Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
As for menus in Korean, geez, it takes an hour to get a good grasp of written Korean. |
That's all fine and good, when you're in Korea, but they're talking about restaurants in the US. Do you want to brush up on a second language just to go out for dinner? ( keeping in mind that Korean food will never have the snob appeal of French cuisine) |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:37 am Post subject: |
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When a contingent of Annandale's civic leaders named their downtown "The Annandale Village Centre," they were aiming to re-create the experience of Old Town Alexandria, where people can walk to specialty shops on brick sidewalks along quaint streets.
The Annandale Chamber of Commerce's Web site and brochures published by Fairfax County try to convey old-fashioned charm, with photos of downtown scenes: a Civil War-era church, a rustic barn and a farmers market.
In reality, the face of downtown Annandale -- a collection of aging strip malls and low-rise office buildings -- has changed from white to Asian, and its unofficial, oft-invoked moniker is Koreatown.
Although a visitor wouldn't know it from the Chamber of Commerce fliers, signs with large Korean characters -- subtitled with tiny English words -- fill Annandale's urban streetscape. They advertise a wide range of businesses: electronic stores showing off the latest gadgets from Asia, plush lawyer and realty offices, incense-filled medicine shops, pulsing karaoke bars and dance clubs and 39 Korean restaurants. |
There is another aspect to this. I get a kick out of so many planners and chamber of commerce types who think -- whose ONLY idea -- of making a public space attractive and distinctive is to "recreate" some idealized past, some made-up image of a "historic" small town, that probably never really existed in the first place. I don't mean to nitpick, but 150 years ago "old town Annandale" was probably a smelly, dirt-poor area with muddy streets, horse manure everywhere and a summertime stench of outhouses that would make your eyes water. It probably looked like something out of Gangs of New York, but they wouldn't want to make their downtown TOO authentic. That's not the image that they'd want to promote, even if it is the historically accurate one.
And EVERY planner and chamber of commerce type, in every community in Canada, the US, Australia and NZ has exactly the same idea. And you end up with ticky-tack downtowns everywhere that "seem" vibrant, but aren't.
These idiots at the so-called chamber of commerce can't seem to see that the Korean-ness of their downtown IS a strength...a distinctiveness that other places don't have. They want their downtowns to be distinct and attractive.
As long as they're not ethnic. That's too much to deal with. Most town planners are WASPs, and being a WASP completely colors everything they do, plan or develop. They have trouble dealing with blacks, let alone someone from another country who speaks another language.
Around 1920, some of the first "Italian" restaurants opened up in New York and other places. At first people considered them really exotic and different, and perhaps a bit intimidating. Now, who thinks anything of ordering spaghetti or ravioli in a restaurant? The same will probably happen with these strange "Korean" restaurants in 50 or 60 years or so. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
As long as they're not ethnic. That's too much to deal with. Most town planners are WASPs, and being a WASP completely colors everything they do, plan or develop. They have trouble dealing with blacks, let alone someone from another country who speaks another language. |
Any evidence that all WASPs have trouble dealing with blacks and people of colour? Shall I throw this into the bag?
"The problem with Koreans is that they can't assimilate into other cultures, and have problems dealing with anyone who isn't Korean." |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Swiss James wrote: |
Oh no, if you try and claim that people will say you're just an apologist who hasn't lived here for long enough.
You know most of my friends in Korea don't post on here because they think it's full of weirdos who complain about nothing. |
This constitutes the only vent for some people. Living in a foreign country can be stressful. If you take away the vent, the bursts of anger you witness on this forum might manifest themselves in more negative ways. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| When I said "they" I was referring to town planners, not WASPs. The ones I've met (town planners) are a rather intellectually and socially inbred bunch. They have a hard time dealing with people who aren't town planners, let alone someone from another country. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:19 am Post subject: |
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I lived in Annandale eight years ago before I came to Korea. There was one Korean restaurant, a bakery (well, ttokery) where you could buy ttok, a butcher and a laundry owned by Koreans.
I went back two years later and couldn't believe how many more Korean stores, restaurants, and other businesses there were. They were growing like mushrooms. Many signs in hangeul, too, and I was able to impress friends with the ability to read them. (Of course, they had no idea, so I could have said anything.)
As long as they don't close down H.I. Ribsters (good ribs and God eats the buffalo wings!) and The Sunset Grill (nice, sleazy peanut-shells-on-the-floor bar), I don't care who moves into the area. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| When I said "they" I was referring to town planners, not WASPs. The ones I've met (town planners) are a rather intellectually and socially inbred bunch. They have a hard time dealing with people who aren't town planners, let alone someone from another country. |
and being a WASP completely colors everything they do, plan or develop.
That's not how I would construe it.
"Most doctors I have met are Korean, and being a Korean completely colors everything they do."
"Most athletes are black, and being black completely colors everything they do." |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:44 am Post subject: |
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I believe I've made my meaning clear.
Get over it. |
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Zenpickle
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Location: Anyang -- Bisan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Swiss James wrote: |
| indytrucks wrote: |
| Swiss James wrote: |
| You know most of my friends in Korea don't post on here because they think it's full of weirdos who complain about nothing. |
Thank you for my new signature. |
I love it when people do that!
One thing I wonder with all these Koreatown, Little Italy type places, do koreans have a nickname for Itaewon? �ܱ��� perhaps? |
�˵�? |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| As I was saying, not only is the term racist, but so is the idea behind it. It's pure and simple segregation. It's not much better than putting the Native Americans in reserves far away from towns so that white folk don't have to see and interact with them in their own neighborhoods. |
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mercury
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Pusan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| I used to go to the YMCA and some of the older men their were Korea war vets. When I told them I was going to Korea they said "what for?" They told me how dirty it was, how the people lived like animals, and I figure that the people in this town still have the same images of Mash, or wartime photos. Most people, when you mention the word KOREA think of the Korean war, and it must be hard for Koreans to start a new image. I think this is one reason many Koreans are trying to make a name for themselves in just about any endeavor, golf, baseball, the world cup, with a sad history like Korea had (it must have been really humbling to have so many countries come and save you) I think they are desperate to change things around. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| mercury wrote: |
| I used to go to the YMCA and some of the older men their were Korea war vets. When I told them I was going to Korea they said "what for?" They told me how dirty it was, how the people lived like animals, and I figure that the people in this town still have the same images of Mash, or wartime photos. Most people, when you mention the word KOREA think of the Korean war, and it must be hard for Koreans to start a new image. I think this is one reason many Koreans are trying to make a name for themselves in just about any endeavor, golf, baseball, the world cup, with a sad history like Korea had (it must have been really humbling to have so many countries come and save you) I think they are desperate to change things around. |
well fact is.. USA or canada or OZ , is much better living than korea!
kroeans know it! its foreigners like us who run from that sweet life to fight the fight in the dirty streets.. ill take the dirty streets thanks!! |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| What's wrong with the term "Koreatown"? We have been using "Chinatown" for a long time. If people from a radically foreign culture want to remain among their own people who speak and think as they do, why not? Would you want to interact with people who do not want to interact with you, anyway? There's a lot of space for everybody, isn't there? |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| As I was saying, not only is the term racist, but so is the idea behind it. It's pure and simple segregation. It's not much better than putting the Native Americans in reserves far away from towns so that white folk don't have to see and interact with them in their own neighborhoods. |
Wrong and wronger. No more racist than the terms Chinatown or Little Italy. Often I find people projecting their own feelings on others. Since I don't know you, I won't suggest that you are racist.
As far as segregation is concerned, generally the people move to the areas because that's where their support groups are. Before I came to Korea, eight years ago, many Koreans emmigrated by getting involved in gaes. A gae is a group of people who put money into a kitty and, when it reaches a certain amount, it is given to one of the group. Then it's begun again and the next person on the list gets the dough. The people who are already in the States (or where ever the group goes) also pay into the gae and help the newcomers to the area. I haven't lived back in the the States since 1996, and this practice may have stopped (or, more likely slowed down), but it explains how Koreatowns build up better than saying that they are segregated there.
Koreans are not segregated to those areas and the comparison between them and Indian reservations is so off the mark it is silly. Reservations were government controlled and often done so that the settlers could have things like mineral rights. A bad policy that was racist in many ways.
I'm not saying that there are not neighborhoods that don't welcome and do their best to keep "others" out, but Koreantowns = reservations. Uh unh. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| gypsyfish wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| As I was saying, not only is the term racist, but so is the idea behind it. It's pure and simple segregation. It's not much better than putting the Native Americans in reserves far away from towns so that white folk don't have to see and interact with them in their own neighborhoods. |
Wrong and wronger. No more racist than the terms Chinatown or Little Italy. Often I find people projecting their own feelings on others. Since I don't know you, I won't suggest that you are racist.
As far as segregation is concerned, generally the people move to the areas because that's where their support groups are. Before I came to Korea, eight years ago, many Koreans emmigrated by getting involved in gaes. A gae is a group of people who put money into a kitty and, when it reaches a certain amount, it is given to one of the group. Then it's begun again and the next person on the list gets the dough. The people who are already in the States (or where ever the group goes) also pay into the gae and help the newcomers to the area. I haven't lived back in the the States since 1996, and this practice may have stopped (or, more likely slowed down), but it explains how Koreatowns build up better than saying that they are segregated there.
Koreans are not segregated to those areas and the comparison between them and Indian reservations is so off the mark it is silly. Reservations were government controlled and often done so that the settlers could have things like mineral rights. A bad policy that was racist in many ways.
I'm not saying that there are not neighborhoods that don't welcome and do their best to keep "others" out, but Koreantowns = reservations. Uh unh. |
Of course, they aren't limited to Koreatown, but I'm sure there are lot of people who would love for them to do so. |
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