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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Sofa_King wrote: |
These kids are JUST KIDS. Have you ever skipped a class in high school or university? Did you get beat for it? |
maybe I should have? Maybe I sould have been beaten. Honestly, I can think of numerous times in my life where a "firmer hand" might have led me a little better.
I hink the point ALOT of people are trying to make in "support" of physical punishment is that the current condition in N America (and sememingly England) in regaurds to youth is horendous. TOO many kids are getting away with far too much. |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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If the 'Love Stick' is a tradition in Korea, how come Korean guys get angry when foreigners do it?  |
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tommynomad
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Location: on the move
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| I hink the point ALOT of people are trying to make in "support" of physical punishment is that the current condition in N America (and sememingly England) in regaurds to youth is horendous. TOO many kids are getting away with far too much. |
And if some of you who are making that argument had read kermo's point about this also being the case in ancient Greece, you'd realise two things:
1. People have always said these things about youth.
2. Those who say it sound like old fogeys. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope the Canadian papers stick his photo to the front page and make him too embarrassed ever to show his face in Canada again. Assaulting a young adult like this is not a tradition worth defending in any respect whatsoever. From this article and things I've seen, it would seem that almost all Korean kids are physically punished by their parents. And what is the result? Some of the most disrespectful little shits imagineable in hogwans because they know the foreign teachers cannot / will not hit them. True, there are some wonderful little darlings there as well, but if some of the insolent, uncontrolable brats that end up in almost every class are the result of Korean 'love stick' culture, it has failed horribly to produce any genuine respect in a large percentage of children. Realistic expectations and a culture of mutual support re: raising kids would be a far better start any day. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Sofa king wrote
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I think that this article is exposing a very huge problem in Korean society....the poor treatment of children. Let's face it, these kids really are not allowed to be kids. They go to school from 8 am until 3 pm, then go to academies until late hours of the evening. Then when they get home at 10 pm, they have to do massive amounts of school work and academy work. Sometimes they are unable to finish their homework, and when this happens, they get beat so bad, they walk with a limp the next day. Once joining middle school, the girls are assimilated and their hair is cut off. I've seen an 8 year old girl unable to stay awake in class because her mother felt it was necessary to make her run on a treadmill until 1 am because she is slightly over-weight.
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True words. Kids in Korea are often having their childhood stolen from them by 'well meaning' parents. |
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little mixed girl
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: shin hyesung's bed~
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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while beating a kid may lead to a cycle of beating, i think some kids just need to get beat down.
talking to your kid like "if u are bad then i'll be sad" or something like that doesn't work for a lotta kids. really, you just have to beat them and burden them with unbearable guilt.
and no, i'm not joking.
some parents go off and spoil their kids, raising rich little brats who have no idea the value of anything, then they wonder why these kids are the ones on tv, video-taping themselves shooting paintballs at the homeless...
i don't know if beating the boy with a stick is the best thing, but i would have done worse. cut school and i spend $$ trying to get you an education? a beating would be nice, cuz i'd kill you. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| little mixed girl wrote: |
while beating a kid may lead to a cycle of beating, i think some kids just need to get beat down.
talking to your kid like "if u are bad then i'll be sad" or something like that doesn't work for a lotta kids. really, you just have to beat them and burden them with unbearable guilt.
and no, i'm not joking.
some parents go off and spoil their kids, raising rich little brats who have no idea the value of anything, then they wonder why these kids are the ones on tv, video-taping themselves shooting paintballs at the homeless...
i don't know if beating the boy with a stick is the best thing, but i would have done worse. cut school and i spend $$ trying to get you an education? a beating would be nice, cuz i'd kill you. |
Some of the attitudes expressed here by people who *work with children* for a living in a country with very vague or non-existant child abuse laws are a bit frightening. People complain about rich spoiled brats here, but guess what - most of them probably have been beaten and hit by their parents. And what good does it do? Do you think this was the first time this kid in Canada had ever been hit? He was 16 and his parents' methods obviously hadn't worked on him. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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discipline is an age old question. The problem stems from the disagreement from people who have different opinions as to what discipline is.
Beating is not discipline.
Discipline is usually a set punishment for a set offence. It is usually not carried out in anger, it is simply administered.
A beating is usually carried out in an agitated state of emotion with the intent to harm.
I really dont have a problem with Korean teachers and their little sticks and canes that they use in class. Often when I am in their classrooms I will pick up the stick and walk around with it. I dont hit the kids with it(at least not forcefully) I do make a spectical of yelling a battle cry and pretending to whack them with great force. It gets the point across and nobody suffers any physical damage(I cant speak for the psychological damage I am doing)
The fact remains that the people that use other methods to discipline children will never agree with the people that do use physical discipline. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
discipline is an age old question. The problem stems from the disagreement from people who have different opinions as to what discipline is.
Beating is not discipline.
Discipline is usually a set punishment for a set offence. It is usually not carried out in anger, it is simply administered.
A beating is usually carried out in an agitated state of emotion with the intent to harm.
I really dont have a problem with Korean teachers and their little sticks and canes that they use in class. Often when I am in their classrooms I will pick up the stick and walk around with it. I dont hit the kids with it(at least not forcefully) I do make a spectical of yelling a battle cry and pretending to whack them with great force. It gets the point across and nobody suffers any physical damage(I cant speak for the psychological damage I am doing)
The fact remains that the people that use other methods to discipline children will never agree with the people that do use physical discipline. |
You have people who get good results using physical discipline and people who get good results without it. The choice of which to follow seems pretty obvious given the potential effects of the former.
I still can't believe that some people who work with kids would come out supporting this father. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ye bum suk if I told you I would smack you with a frozen otter 5 times for every time you did something, and you knew for a fact I was packing a frozen otter and that I would and have used it before...would you do the thing I told you not to do? And if you did ...then dont you think you deserve it?
Father:"If you are truant I will strike you 10 times with a stick!"
Son:"yes father I am sorry it will not happen again"
Father:" You were truant again~!  What is going to happen now?"
Son:"I will get punished for doing something wrong"
Father:"will you ever do it again?"
Son:"no father I promise"
It isnt the act of truancy that upset the father so, its the fact that his son lied to his face and disdainfully returned to his previous behaviour. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
Ye bum suk if I told you I would smack you with a frozen otter 5 times for every time you did something, and you knew for a fact I was packing a frozen otter and that I would and have used it before...would you do the thing I told you not to do? And if you did ...then dont you think you deserve it?
Father:"If you are truant I will strike you 10 times with a stick!"
Son:"yes father I am sorry it will not happen again"
Father:" You were truant again~! What is going to happen now?"
Son:"I will get punished for doing something wrong"
Father:"will you ever do it again?"
Son:"no father I promise"
It isnt the act of truancy that upset the father so, its the fact that his son lied to his face and disdainfully returned to his previous behaviour. |
The first time the father tried this I believe it was 50, not 10, and it still didn't work.
Here's a better scenario:
S: If you strike me I will defend myself, get put into Canadian protective custody, and then sue you for all your Canadian assets when I turn 18.
F: Oh shit. You're coming back to Korea.
S: What kind of father dumps his kid off in a foreign country to study when he's 16, anyway?
F: Oh shit. He's learning how not to think like a Korean.
S: Will you ever strike me in Canada again?
F: No son, I promise. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| if you re read the article the son admitted that the total was 20 not 50 |
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Scott in HK
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: now in Incheon..haven't changed my name yet
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:35 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry Grotto...doesn't you example clearly show that the chosen form of discipline didn't work...the child still acted up even with the threat of violence...and then the child goes on to break the rule again...clearly the chosen from of discipline is not very effective....the child feels that joy of truancy outweights the pain of getting hit...
Said it before and I will say it again....physical punishments are for the lazy and ignorant...there are better ways.... |
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little mixed girl
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: shin hyesung's bed~
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Some of the attitudes expressed here by people who *work with children* for a living in a country with very vague or non-existant child abuse laws are a bit frightening. People complain about rich spoiled brats here, but guess what - most of them probably have been beaten and hit by their parents. And what good does it do? Do you think this was the first time this kid in Canada had ever been hit? He was 16 and his parents' methods obviously hadn't worked on him. |
most rich kids i know were never touched by their parents.
all of that stuff from the 80s about talk to your kid and such.
sure it can work with some kids, but have u seen judge hatchett?
some kids just need to be beat down.
the kid is skipping class because he's 1/2 a world away from dad, he gets mucho $$$ from dad and therefore doesn't care.
a guilt ridden childhood + beatings = kid going to school.
talking to this 16 yr old is not gonna help. my little sister is about to turn 16 and talking to her does nothing.
i'd beat her, but my mom won't allow it. i think my mom should beat her, but she won't. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| little mixed girl wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Some of the attitudes expressed here by people who *work with children* for a living in a country with very vague or non-existant child abuse laws are a bit frightening. People complain about rich spoiled brats here, but guess what - most of them probably have been beaten and hit by their parents. And what good does it do? Do you think this was the first time this kid in Canada had ever been hit? He was 16 and his parents' methods obviously hadn't worked on him. |
most rich kids i know were never touched by their parents.
all of that stuff from the 80s about talk to your kid and such.
sure it can work with some kids, but have u seen judge hatchett?
some kids just need to be beat down.
the kid is skipping class because he's 1/2 a world away from dad, he gets mucho $$$ from dad and therefore doesn't care.
a guilt ridden childhood + beatings = kid going to school.
talking to this 16 yr old is not gonna help. my little sister is about to turn 16 and talking to her does nothing.
i'd beat her, but my mom won't allow it. i think my mom should beat her, but she won't. |
Most rich kids here or in the west? I think that whether their parents hit them when they're angry has little to do with whether they turn out spoiled. And no I don't know who Judge Hatchet is. Re: your sister, if she's in North America there's something called car keys that work a lot than a 'love stick', but perhaps in the Korean mind denying your rich kids an ostenstatious display is a far worse form of abuse. |
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