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guangho
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency
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 Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going by my experiences in China here and my high as a kite former collegue but to be honest one of the big problems is that many who come here treat their contract as an extended sex/booze/drug fiesta. This, combined with the fact that we get paid at least 20 percent more (and sometimes 50 percent more) than the Korean native teachers understandibly p*sses them off. Don't believe me? I replaced a guy who decided one day in the winter "You know what? I feel like going to Thailand"- which he did, for two weeks, without telling anyone-like his boss. Would this happen in the west?
And then I come in and Grace is leery of me from the get go. How many here work with Korean teachers who had suffered through guys like the one I replaced? |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| guangho wrote: |
I'm going by my experiences in China here and my high as a kite former collegue but to be honest one of the big problems is that many who come here treat their contract as an extended sex/booze/drug fiesta. This, combined with the fact that we get paid at least 20 percent more (and sometimes 50 percent more) than the Korean native teachers understandibly p*sses them off. Don't believe me? I replaced a guy who decided one day in the winter "You know what? I feel like going to Thailand"- which he did, for two weeks, without telling anyone-like his boss. Would this happen in the west?
And then I come in and Grace is leery of me from the get go. How many here work with Korean teachers who had suffered through guys like the one I replaced? |
I'd say not many.
All of the foreign teachers I've worked with tried their best to work well all year.
That's just my experience. |
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Universalis
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| guangho wrote: |
| I'm going by my experiences in China here and my high as a kite former collegue but to be honest one of the big problems is that many who come here treat their contract as an extended sex/booze/drug fiesta. This, combined with the fact that we get paid at least 20 percent more (and sometimes 50 percent more) than the Korean native teachers understandibly p*sses them off. Don't believe me? I replaced a guy who decided one day in the winter "You know what? I feel like going to Thailand"- which he did, for two weeks, without telling anyone-like his boss. Would this happen in the west? |
Yes it could happen in the west, and if it did the person would get fired. Did this guy get fired, or was his litle move considered an act of quitting?
I know it's been said before, but the answer to this problem is easy... tighten up hiring guidelines and pay more.
I remember a school I used to work at where one fo the teachers was a bit of flake and the boss was always complaining about the guy. BUt when the guy's contract expired, was he let go? No... they wanted him to come back, I'm guessing because they needed a western body in a classroom. What kind of message does that send to the rest of the teachers?
Luckily, the school I work at now is quite professional, and for proof I just saw a teacher get fired after two months of work because he was constantly missing his early classes (I suspect he used the job to get a free plane ticket).
I think one way to avoid the irresponsible flakes with wanderlust is to hire people who have roots in Korea. Not only do they have more experience working here, but they are less likely to just up and leave.
Just my 2 cents...
Brian |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| guangho wrote: |
| Where are all these anti-foreigner Koreans? Where are all these attacks? What in f's name is Spectrumgate? I've been here nearly 3 months now without any beatdowns. Damn I feel discrimated in not being sufficiently discriminated against..... |
That's because it's a molehill in reality and a mountain on the net. Particularly here. When you take some paranoid foreigners, add the isolationary effects of being a visible minority in a very homogeneous and different culture. Add a pinch of the fact that a lot of these expats are not coming here with willing and open arms for a rich cultural experience, but for another kind of rich. Sprinkle in elements of language and cultural divides, plus the simple truths that not all foreigners are free of their own personal hang-ups as soon as they step of the plane, and add an underlying, subtle dash of 'I read it on the internet, so it must be true', then you will have a tasty recipe for overblown hype. |
Yep, some paranoid little caucasion puppies out there. I can't quite understand how people who only know foreigner 101 korean (mekju hana juseyo etc.) know that koreans are always talking about them/
I guess some people here waygook or whatever and assume they are being talked about. I guess koreans should have the decency not to talk about anything outside korea (waygook) in case it is misconstrued by joe english teacher.  |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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emmmm ok lets hope korea qualifies for the worldcup 2006
and then the world should say.. ohhh you know what KOREA..
actually you cant play now...
and yes why doesnt the government just ban all foreigners from korea!!
that would be great!.. like thats EVER gonna happen!!!
jesus the government should be arresting these people.. just like in china if you protest bad about the government you get arrested.. they should do the same here regarding foreigners,.., |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| guangho wrote: |
| Where are all these anti-foreigner Koreans? Where are all these attacks? What in f's name is Spectrumgate? I've been here nearly 3 months now without any beatdowns. Damn I feel discrimated in not being sufficiently discriminated against..... |
That's because it's a molehill in reality and a mountain on the net. Particularly here. When you take some paranoid foreigners, add the isolationary effects of being a visible minority in a very homogeneous and different culture. Add a pinch of the fact that a lot of these expats are not coming here with willing and open arms for a rich cultural experience, but for another kind of rich. Sprinkle in elements of language and cultural divides, plus the simple truths that not all foreigners are free of their own personal hang-ups as soon as they step of the plane, and add an underlying, subtle dash of 'I read it on the internet, so it must be true', then you will have a tasty recipe for overblown hype. |
Yep, some paranoid little caucasion puppies out there. I can't quite understand how people who only know foreigner 101 korean (mekju hana juseyo etc.) know that koreans are always talking about them/
I guess some people here waygook or whatever and assume they are being talked about. I guess koreans should have the decency not to talk about anything outside korea (waygook) in case it is misconstrued by joe english teacher. |
Perhaps the death threats on the SBS site, the racist anti-westerner communities on daum and naver. Maybe? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps the death threats on the SBS site, the racist anti-westerner communities on daum and naver. Maybe?
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I think the point that people are making here is that they'd like to see some of this anti-forgeigner activity manifest itself OUTSIDE of cyberspace before they jump on Purcell's "Korean xenophobia" bandwagon.
I think the current uproar over Dok-do provides a useful example of what genuine Korean outrage really looks like. Because with that, it's not just a bunch of bozos talking trash on the internet. No, there are impassioned statements from the government, organized boycotts, huge protests, plus the occasional bit of self-mutilation and self-immolation thrown in just to make sure people get the point. So I'd say the Dok-do follies pretty much drive home what a non-issue the anti-ESL campaign is. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Why was the english specrtrum site shut down? I heard it was because some idiot posted (bad joke or not) about how to molest little kids. |
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Emu Bitter
Joined: 27 May 2004
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="eamo"][quote="guangho"]I'm going by my experiences in China here and my high as a kite former collegue but to be honest one of the big problems is that many who come here treat their contract as an extended sex/booze/drug fiesta. This, combined with the fact that we get paid at least 20 percent more (and sometimes 50 percent more) than the Korean native teachers understandibly p*sses them off. Don't believe me? I replaced a guy who decided one day in the winter "You know what? I feel like going to Thailand"- which he did, for two weeks, without telling anyone-like his boss. Would this happen in the west?
And then I come in and Grace is leery of me from the get go. How many here work with Korean teachers who had suffered through guys like the one I replaced?[/quote]
I'd say not many.
[b]All[/b] of the foreign teachers I've worked with tried their best to work well all year.
That's just my experience.[/quote] |
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Emu Bitter
Joined: 27 May 2004
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| whoops, sorry Eamo, I'm not the most computer literate bloke out there. I'd agree with your positive view on teachers. I've been here a long time & I personally think that the majority come here with good intentions, if you come here & find yourself working for a mom'n'pop hogwan, why wouldn't you conclude that if my boss is trying to rip me off & is ripping off the parents, then I don't necessarily have to do heaps of prep, live a sober life etc. |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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So what does this all mean for South Korea? The number of non-Asian visitors to South Korea is dropping. So too are the amount of businesses investing in South Korea.
That is as much due to the weakened currency as it is to South Korea's less-than-welcoming reputation. |
I think the only conclusion you can draw here is that he is talking about the won. Either that or he is making a pretty horrible writing mistake. Because in the previous paragraph he mentions 'non-Asian visitors' not Americans by name, so he can't be referring to the dollar or any other specific currency when he says 'the currency.' So it leaves the reader to assume the won because he metions South Korea by name before and after.
As I understand, the won is rising and the Korea government, like many Asian countries, is battling to keep a lid on it so that they can be competitive in the export market.
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Markets/GC21Ag06.html
People have this simplistic idea that strong currency = good. but there are major drawbacks to both strong and weak currencies.
Anyways, this a pretty glaring error that really throws his credibility into question. That, and the fact that this article is basically a crude pastiche of sentiments that have been expressed a thousand times on this board.[/quote] |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
Perhaps the death threats on the SBS site, the racist anti-westerner communities on daum and naver. Maybe?
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I think the point that people are making here is that they'd like to see some of this anti-forgeigner activity manifest itself OUTSIDE of cyberspace before they jump on Purcell's "Korean xenophobia" bandwagon. |
(Heh-heh... and some may already be aboard that bandwagon and still want to see such "activity manifest itself", if only to have their predictions proven, beliefs validated and axes ground.) But sure, OTOH, that's right. So far it's been 90% Internet-driven rage and media hoopla, with scant and sometimes circumstantial evidence of actual real-life incidents on the ground to support the grim portrait of Korea that article paints.
Embassy warnings come and go, as do the 2-block marches up & down Jong-no for the TV cameras. (Why, oh why don't they hold one of those damn things down in Gangnam, or in that seething hotbed of anti-foreigner angst, Hongdae/Shinchon, and bring their peak-hour traffic to a halt for a change??!!  ) As for the SBS & MBC programmes and the Chosun article, the local media has always stirred up trouble like that, so that's not really news either. It's worth complaining about, but on another thread, as Purcell's piece doesn't give one a very sturdy springboard.
And if (another) temporary crackdown on illegal English teachers and an intention to run a tighter, credential-verified ship on the ESL hiring front are the only officially stated and visible repercussions so far, then I don't see what all the P & M-ing is about.
Giving Purcell's article a line-by-line fisking would entail more time & energy than the author probably put into researching & writing it. And the additional light shed on this subject wouldn't warrant the effort. For me, it isn't the specific things Purcell says (see billybrobby's spot-on "crude pastiche" description) that are of any particular use. Rather, it's the article itself, in toto -- "where it's coming from" -- that's relevant at this time. I think it's a reasonably good caricature of a fairly significant number of ex-pats, by whom I don't mean only ESLers or even English speakers.
For reasons old and new, deserved as well as not, Korea's global rep has some serious problems. We know it, the Koreans themselves know it, too. What's unfortunate is that Korea has been unable to use what international good will, respect and admiration it does earn to effectively surmount these problems once and for all. Maybe that's expecting too much too soon, I dunno.
What problematic rep? Well, the rep that keeps Korea near the bottom of the list year after year on surveys of "best countries in the region for foreigners to live and do business", on "foreigner-friendliness", on "comfort & convenience", etc. The same rep that leads to terms like "nationalistic", "mistrustful of foreigners", "extremist" and "xenophobic" appearing in otherwise glowing descriptions of modern-day Korea. That be the rep I'm referring to.
And it's a reputation that's older, distinct from, and largely uninfluenced by the grumblings on Dave's ESL Cafe by the DVKH (Disgruntled Veterans of Korean Hagwons) or anybody else in the ESL profession. You certainly have your legitimate beefs with Korea, I'm not saying you don't. I'm just saying you don't have a lock on the "beef market" here, but I'm sure you knew that.
| On the other hand wrote: |
| I think the current uproar over Dok-do provides a useful example of what genuine Korean outrage really looks like... impassioned statements from the government, organized boycotts, huge protests, plus the occasional bit of self-mutilation and self-immolation thrown in just to make sure people get the point. So I'd say the Dok-do follies pretty much drive home what a non-issue the anti-ESL campaign is. |
Uhh... yeah. But I'm more concerned about the "Dok-do follies" you've just enumerated driving home a few other points to observers around the world, some wholly unintended and not at all to Korea's ultimate benefit.
Impressions and opinions of a country and its people are not usually formed by a single incident, and certainly not in a vacuum. When you look at the headlines of the past three or four years, you can see a parade of foreign "baddies": cheating U.S. athletes, murderous U.S. soldiers, discriminatory U.S. visa staff, revisionist Chinese historians, low-quality lecherous ESL teachers from a whole swath of countries, and now... well, I suppose the entire population of Japan.
Now, you might believe that Washington, Tokyo and Beijing -- other world capitals -- have nothing better to do than stay up late plotting ways to trample on Korea's national pride, and that Korea is being unfairly, solely and repeatedly victimised by everyone. ... Or, you might get an impression not far different than that of one of my own European diplomatic sources: 'Korea hates the world, but the world doesn't hate Korea'. He's from a former Eastern-bloc country and was in Pyongyang years ago, so I asked if he meant North or South. 'Whichever'. |
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