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feminism in Korea
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Swiss James

Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:50 am Post subject:

peppermint wrote:

Swiss James wrote:

When you're disussing something with someone whose entire goal is to keep the argument going for as long as possible, how are you ever going to get anywhere?

yeah, I've got better things to do- like herding kittens.

typical feminazi, pushing (no doubt male) kittens around

Daechidong Waygookin

Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:58 am Post subject:

Looks like you guys are backing down. Oh well, its fun to win arguments.

The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:00 am Post subject:

Daechidong Waygookin wrote:

Looks like you guys are backing down. Oh well, its fun to win arguments.

Did you make an argument? Damn, I missed that ... no, just looked again. Isn't there. You have no argument.

Daechidong Waygookin

Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:04 am Post subject:

The Bobster wrote:

Daechidong Waygookin wrote:

Looks like you guys are backing down. Oh well, its fun to win arguments.

Did you make an argument? Damn, I missed that ... no, just looked again. Isn't there. You have no argument.

I enjoy winning debates and having jealous people try and deny the truth. Go away jealous person.

kermo

Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:00 am Post subject:

peppermint wrote:

Swiss James wrote:

When you're disussing something with someone whose entire goal is to keep the argument going for as long as possible, how are you ever going to get anywhere?

yeah, I've got better things to do- like herding kittens.

That sounds like fun! DW can get himself a dictionary, and curl up somewhere, warm and safe from the feminazis and people who actually took arts courses, and we will get some squirrels and kittens and play cowgirl. Yee haw.

casey's moon

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:21 am Post subject:

Swiss James wrote:

When you're disussing something with someone whose entire goal is to keep the argument going for as long as possible, how are you ever going to get anywhere?

That's actually exactly why I asked my last question. I am now sure it is not worth the energy of arguing with him, as he and I are arguing about totally different things.

It's kind of annoying, because this thread could have been a lot more interesting. You, MOS, Blind Willie, Tommynomad and YBM (the bum suck guy), and possibly others I've missed had differing but relevant opinions on the topic from the male point of view. Unfortunately, none of you could keep up with DW's posts -- he must have posted on this thread 20 times and argued with a dozen of us, men and women. It's amusing and annoying, actually.

JongnoGuru

Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:25 am Post subject:

anae wrote:

I am a stay at home mom, my husband is the sole breadwinner, and I am a feminist. The women's movement has given me choice. I now choose to be at home raising my daughter. I am not trapped in this role by society deeming it my only worth as a woman.

Women now have choices. They can be married, not married, have a job, not have a job, be married with children, unmarried with children. Men have the same choice we've always had: work, or prison.
-- Tim Allen

Last edited by JongnoGuru on Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:17 am; edited 1 time in total

Maugrim

Joined: 10 Nov 2003

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:33 am Post subject:

peppermint wrote:

Hate's too strong a word, but I'd say the vast majority of men don't regard the average woman as anywhere near his equal.

As Swiss James was quick to point out, this is an obviously flawed statement. There's no way that Peppermint can know "the vast majority of men" But there's another problem with it as well. Seeing as no woman can see things exactly as a man can, and no man can see things exactly as a woman can, how are we to decide when the majority of either views their opposite as "equal"? Ultimately, whether a person is sexist depends upon that persons own perceptions of the opposite sex. That is, even if a woman perceives me to be sexist, it doesn't necessarily mean that I am (in fact, her perception of me might be as a result of her own sexism. The converse is true as well, obviously).

It will come down to a matter of degrees. Sexism will likely never be eliminated, but that isn't saying that things can't be made better.

For the record, I'd also like to say that while their are pressures on women with regards to their appearances, similar pressures exist for men. And while those pressures on women seem, to my mind, to be keeping more or less constant, I feel that the pressures on men are increasing. If the coining of the term "metrosexual" is any indication, anyway.

As MMT (Million Monkeys Typing. I.e. DW) has so kindly pointed out, this thread more or less boils down to your definition of feminism. Whether you're for "feminism" or not hinges on whether you're referring to the movement or the idea of equality of the sexes (unless of course you're just a bigot). Honestly though, for his putatively precise mind, it sure took him a lot of posts to get his point. Maybe he should have taken a few more arts classes and learned how to formulate an argument.

And, good god man, winning an internet argument is like getting gold in the Special Olympics. Sure, you won, but you're still retarded.

peppermint

Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:44 am Post subject:

Maugrim wrote:

For the record, I'd also like to say that while their are pressures on women with regards to their appearances, similar pressures exist for men. And while those pressures on women seem, to my mind, to be keeping more or less constant, I feel that the pressures on men are increasing. If the coining of the term "metrosexual" is any indication, anyway.

Personally, I find the metrosexual trend a little wierd. The last thing I need to deal with in the morning is a spat with my guy over access to styling products and the mirror. Wink

Oh, hey wanna come kitten herding with Kermo and me?

paperbag princess

Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:07 am Post subject:

[quote="peppermint"]

Maugrim wrote:

Oh, hey wanna come kitten herding with Kermo and me?

can i come kitten herding? it sounds like fun! Smile

casey's moon

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:09 am Post subject:

[quote="paperbag princess"]

peppermint wrote:

Maugrim wrote:

Oh, hey wanna come kitten herding with Kermo and me?

can i come kitten herding? it sounds like fun! Smile

me too, me too!

The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:42 am Post subject:

casey's moon

Quote:

It's kind of annoying, because this thread could have been a lot more interesting. You, MOS, Blind Willie, Tommynomad and YBM (the bum suck guy), and possibly others I've missed had differing but relevant opinions on the topic from the male point of view.

Very good point and it had occurred to me before. Let's go back to the guy whose comments started things off in the early pages. Something tells me he'll be a much more fruitful fella to discuss feminisms lacks, if any such there may be ...

Manner of Speaking wrote:

feminism assumes that feminists have a monopoly over how the debate about equality is defined. It pays lip service to the idea of equality, but is an inherently sexist mindset.

This is actually worth discussing, and I hope MOS comes back just long enough to elaborate on it a bit.

Quote:

The Bobster wrote:

Quote:

Daechidong Waygookin wrote:
Looks like you guys are backing down. Oh well, its fun to win arguments.

Did you make an argument? Damn, I missed that ... no, just looked again. Isn't there. You have no argument.

I enjoy winning debates and having jealous people try and deny the truth. Go away jealous person.

Haha, consider me gone, then - and yes, oh golly, I am soooooo jealous. Sorry to say it, DW, but your posts on this thread were the very least interesting of any to read. Kind of a shame the way people gave you enough attention to distract the discussion away from what might have created real understanding among the people here.

Clue #! : An argument is more than just saying something you know damn well will get angry responses - but those are more than you will likely get in the future. An argument is a set of propositions intended to establish a particular idea, propositions not simply presented as "This is true because I say it is" but rather with some smattering of evidence or support behind it. You had nothing like that going for you, therefore no argument, just a bit of wasted bandwidth.

Clue #2 : A debate happens when one person responds to what the other person has said, and presents valid objections rather than making up specious definitions out of whole cloth for the convenience of the moment. There was no debate regarding what you have said here - you have not said anything worthy of debate.

Which is not to say that the topic itself is not worhty of discussion - just that you are not a worthy participant in any such discussion.

Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject:

the Bobster wrote:

An argument is a set of propositions intended to establish a particular idea, propositions not simply presented as "This is true because I say it is" but rather with some smattering of evidence or support behind it.

Folks, I just can't resist. Laughing

The Bobster: "An argument is a set of propositions intended to establish a particular idea, propositions not simply presented as "This is true because I say it is" but rather with some smattering of evidence or support behind it."

MOS: "No it isn't."

The Bobster: "Yes it is."

MOS: "No it isn't."

The Bobster: "Yes it is."

MOS: "No it isn't."

The Bobster: "Yes it is."

MOS: "No it isn't."

The Bobster: "Yes it is."

MOS: "Isn't!"

The Bobster: "Is!"

MOS: "Isn't!"

The Bobster: "Is!"

** DING! **

MOS: "Thank you, good morning." Laughing

Swiss James

Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:48 pm Post subject:

Manner of Speaking wrote:

the Bobster wrote:

Folks, I just can't resist. Laughing

That's not an argument, that's just contradiction.

kermo

Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject:

Swiss James wrote:

Manner of Speaking wrote:

the Bobster wrote:

Folks, I just can't resist. Laughing

That's not an argument, that's just contradiction.

Let's all adjourn to next door, and sign up for those "getting hit on the head" lessons. I suspect it would be equally productive and just as painful.

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