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philinkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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merelyn
sorry to hear your unfortunate bug story. that sounds absolutely gross. really grateful ive done without that problem myself. i dont really see a similar link to the bug disapprearing being linked with teleportation compared to other links showing humans having insight into others past and future.
seeing myself as a relatively smart guy also i would think the bug had gone into some hole that i couldnt find. ive never read anything even remotely factual about teleportation. i thought that just belonged in the movie 'The Fly'.
In the fortune teller case I would again conclude 'some' of them have 'some' insight into people since many people report being told things they had no way of knowing about past and future. In the bugs case if I see a bug crawl into a wall with no hole vanish into a light and appear from another light and a wall with no hole on the other side of the room, then many people also witnessed the same i may consider this as evidence for possible teleportation. |
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philinkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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animalbirdfish
your response is cool. makes a lot of sense, a good viewpoint i think. |
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Merlyn
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| sorry to hear your unfortunate bug story. that sounds absolutely gross. really grateful ive done without that problem myself. i dont really see a similar link to the bug disapprearing being linked with teleportation compared to other links showing humans having insight into others past and future. |
It was the only problem I had had until this year in my new apt. That was equally gross actually, but no evidence of teleportation. My new apt, looked fine at first, but a day or two later I realized the whole place was infested. When I started spraying out they came on mass, crawling two or three at a time across the ceiling, falling down in numbers from behind the ventilation. There was a lot of fury and disgust in those next few days. The worst though came one night when I was sleeping. I awoke feeling something crawling across the top of my head, and I swatted him off, quickly got up and solved the problem. Yuck.
But here is the link with teleportation and fortune telling. It is not so common today, but many of the most famous gurus (Blavatsky) and psychics do claim or have claimed to have a number of special powers including both esp, teleportation, and telekinesis, etc. Usually they said they could teleport objects, or materialize things (apports). Less and less claim this today, I suspect because it is easier to test than fortune telling. But if it is possible to show that natural laws can be broken in one instance, it is also more likely that they've been broken in other instances as well. This is why so many people want to be extremely careful about fortune telling, and other similar claims. If we let one in through the door, more might then slip through and suddenly, we'll live in a world that doesn't seem to reflect what we normally see outside everyday at all. Now if we are critical and we apply all possible challenges and one slips through, so be it.
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seeing myself as a relatively smart guy also i would think the bug had gone into some hole that i couldnt find. ive never read anything even remotely factual about teleportation. i thought that just belonged in the movie 'The Fly'.
In the fortune teller case I would again conclude 'some' of them have 'some' insight into people since many people report being told things they had no way of knowing about past and future. In the bugs case if I see a bug crawl into a wall with no hole vanish into a light and appear from another light and a wall with no hole on the other side of the room, then many people also witnessed the same i may consider this as evidence for possible teleportation. |
Yes, I would imagine many people might consider this as evidence for possible teleportation if they had similar experiences, and they might even use my own experience as evidence to support their own claims. Rightly so, they first looked for another possible explanation, such as hidden holes or cracks, etc, that bugs might crawl into. And then having ruled that out, it seems they were left no other alternative other than teleportation. But just because I believed in my case that teleportation may have occurred, having ruled out one alternative explanation, and many other people had similar experiences and used mine as supporting evidence doesn't mean, in fact, that I've ruled out all possible explanations. And if I haven't ruled out all possible explanations, and many other people are partly basing their claims on mine and they weren't aware of all possible explanation either, that might mean that all of our claims were wrong about the existence of roaches that can teleport. That is provided there is another explanation.
In my case with the roach in the glass, I decided to do a little R.S.I, roach scene investigation. I was still quite convinced that there was a roach in my cup that night. The next morning with the lights turned off I reached for my cup again, and again I saw a roach in my glass. Yuck, not again, but this time I didn't throw my water and the roach onto the wall. Instead I looked more closely at the roach in the dark. To my own surprise, the sticker on the other side of the glass looked a lot like roach in the dark. That got me thinking, was there really a roach in my glass the other night? And then I thought about, the fact that I did see a roach in my cup about a week earlier and having been disgusted by it, was it possible that I woke up not fully awake, and mistook the black spot for a roach, a black spot that in daylight really just looks like a sticker. Taking this into consideration with the fact that I hadn't seen another roach, or even one in my apt for the past week, I actually was willing to change my view. It is possible that their was a roach in my cup a night before and I threw it against the wall with my water, and it disappeared, this can't be ruled out, but this new theory really made a lot of sense as well and could equally account for the data, or even better account for the data, seeing as though the natural laws don't seem to be broken very much if ever, so what are the chances that roaches actually could teleport in Korea.
I guess the point is, that I am quite willing to accept that teleportation is possible and there is nothing wrong with this, but I would be wrong to think of it as real proof until I've ruled out all possible challenges and it is not enough that others believe that proof of teleportation exists, because they may not have ruled out all possible challenges either, and instead have relied upon similar claims like mine. Anyways, I can see that if I really wanted to believe that teleportation was the proper explanation for my experience and I had a vested interest in thinking so, I probably would have accepted it as so, and I wouldn't have even bothered to perform anything more than the basic cross-check. |
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philinkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Merelyn
I respect your argument. Makes a lot of sense. maybe in terms of personality types they have v sensitive character. perhaps like a really good counsellor or a really good general people person who is able to just feel and see possibilities in the person.
i guess when i think to my experiences in honesty i can actually draw kind of helpful parallels between the fortune tellers and a therapist i spoke to in terms of feeling my character and kind of offering possibilities in some way. i guess thats why i somehow found it rewarding and a good thing and hence my defence. i did it for fun in a big part each time but each time always felt i had been offered something in the way of possibilities more than anything else. I can say that is why i am somewhat defensive about people saying itis total rubbish in the sense that it can perhaps be good and useful and give insight into you even if not actually accurately predict the future (i never actually said it did, just possibilities).
I remember when i spoke to a therapist she told me i could be a writer. she didnt claim that to be psychic or anything but picked up on it and when i thought i really believe i could write something one day psychological perhaps. I think if we see fortune tellers as fun but dont take it too seriously to cause us to not take action and responsibilities over our future i think they can offer us insight like this. even if it doesnt fit a definition of psychic it could still be useful.
I agree with the post that said our future is in our own hands, its never written
Perhaps it wasnt so much psychic but due to being sensitive and gifted as a people person someone could in fact tell me i had psychosomatic problems in the way you can tell someone is sick in their behaviour and their eyes.
anyway, i would actually be interested one day to conduct a study as to what counts as 'psychic' and someone perform a test. all v interesting i think. |
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ajstew
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject: fortune teller |
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| Yeah Merelyn, you do seem to make a good argument. It's nice to have a woman's opinion on the subject. |
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PolyChronic Time Girl
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Korea Exited
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: My Korean Fortune Teller |
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I actually visited one last year in Korea...what a total fraud. First, she had me sit before all the Buddhas and chanted to my "ancestors." She made "contact" with my ancestors and her body did these weird twitches, chanting..which was actually pretty cool to see. I guess I was expecting something phantasmal like "your grandfather wants you to remember the time you fell into the pool back in the summer of '88" but no, nothing like that...just a crappy "your ancestors are very proud of you and think you are a sweet girl" 
First, she seemed obsesses with dissecting my birthday and my K. boyfriend's birthday...you know it's really important to Koreans whether you are a Chinese snake and he is a sheep. She told vague stuff about our future..that we would be happy, blah, blah, blah. She actually kind of got it right on when she guessed my boyfriend is a martial arts guy and would do something with kickboxing (which he really wants to do).
However, she ultimately blew it with me when i asked her what I would do with my future (I want to be a college professor or a quirky writer)...she told me that I would open up my own makeup shop in Korea!  For chrissakes, that's probably what every Korean girl wants to hear! No way in hell would I do that...I actually laughed out loud and she could tell that was ludicrous so she tried to backpeddle, consult the "ancestors" and said "no, maybe, a clothing store"----What a crock!
I am open to spirituality but I am also skeptic about all the frauds out there. Anyone have a good experience or recommend one better? |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| if you did end up at a makeup shop it'd make her prediction all the more eerie though.. |
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PolyChronic Time Girl
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Korea Exited
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:17 pm Post subject: Maybe it will happen |
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Maybe, Swiss James, it can happen. I sure hope not though:) Actually, it's funny: before I left Korea two years ago, I wore all black, kind of grungy clothes, never combed my hair.. you name it! Now as time has worn on, I gotta admit I'm wearing Korean clothes, those plaid skirts and frilly shirts and high heel shoes/boots you name it and love it! Actually my family laughed at me when I visited them last X-mas--was shocked how "korean" I looked. Maybe I should open up my own make-up shop  It might happen with how the crazy fashion has snuck up on me! |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| if you do, the ancestors will smile down on you |
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Merlyn
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| anyway, i would actually be interested one day to conduct a study as to what counts as 'psychic' and someone perform a test. all v interesting i think. |
It is interesting, but they are difficult to conduct. I did my first in Canada when the opportunity arose out-the-blue. Mind you this person didn't claim to be a professional. She wasn't charging money. I was visiting a friend's aunt's house for dinner when I was told that her aunt had such a power. I was told she could use esp to go through an entire deck of cards and find the card she was looking for just by thinking about it. This was about 4 years ago. She said she could do it, so I took her up on it to see if her ability could be repeated in observable conditions or was this only a behind closed doors type of esp. Her niece, my girlfriend at the time, was actually quite confident in her ability. I took out the deck and shuffled up the cards and she started. She would remove one card until only the card she was looking for remained, which I had decided upon and wrote down on a piece of paper. I forget what it was now, but I can assure you that the one I wrote down wasn't the one she had picked. Again, this was only one test, and it doesn't show that she has no psychic powers, just that on one occasion when tested in relatively controlled conditions, they weren't apparent. Again, I also say "relatively controlled conditions" because I'm not a professional stage magician either and even if she had picked the right card, I wouldn't be certain that there was no sleight of hand, or the like, happening, but I did my best to rule that out, as well.
I tried to do a similar test about two years ago in Korea as well. My friend went to see an oriental medical doctor because she wasn't feeling well. He gave her acupuncture and finished off with ki-gong (chi-gong, energy work). She said she felt much better, despite the fact that she was still sneezing and coughing. Still she claimed that when the doctor was performing ki-gong she could feel the energy from his hands as they glided above her body, with her eyes closed. In other words, the doctor could project heat from his hands. Because this doesn't happen everyday and goes beyond what most people would normally consider a human talent I thought it would be interesting to do a test to rule out some other explanations. I told my friend a test would be quite easy to do. We could blind fold her and then the 1) Doctor, 2) I, and 3) no one, would move their hands above her and she would simply have to say what times the Doctor, who was do ki-gong, had his hands above her. That is the simplified version of course. My friend, was also quite convinced of his talent, and was delighted to try and prove me wrong about such possible alternative explanations. What alternative explanations? Well, I was betting on "placebo", that she was a strong believer in special powers and was projecting this energy in her own mind. She thought the idea was ludicrous, which shouldn't have suprised me. She always believed that when she held her hands and arms outstetched in a doorway and pressed for about 40 seconds and then moved away, that ghosts were responsible for lifting her arms..... Just kidding about that part.
Still, she went to schedule our meeting and was told flat out no, that such a test wouldn't be possible, even if I had paid the regular fees. Why? No explanation. This is a common problem when investigating and has happened to me another six times in the past two months to a variety of professional psychics. You will have to make up your mind as to why? |
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philinkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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haha
well unless something quite drastic happens my life change coming in 2006 will not be the case as my flight is booked to England for April 8th and Ill be studying. So maybe no Korean or Japanses hotty for me sadly. Did pick up on me not liking England so much though so some credit for though whether psychic or something else. Has been a cool discussion here, partic Merelyn your comments were cool.
see ya |
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adventureman
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| philinkorea wrote: |
haha
well unless something quite drastic happens my life change coming in 2006 will not be the case as my flight is booked to England for April 8th and Ill be studying. So maybe no Korean or Japanses hotty for me sadly. Did pick up on me not liking England so much though so some credit for though whether psychic or something else. Has been a cool discussion here, partic Merelyn your comments were cool.
see ya |
So whats on the radar next for you PW? Was there any specific reasoning behind your decision to leave Korea now or did it just feel like it was to move on to something different? |
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fusionbarnone
Joined: 31 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Fortune telling can be very lucrative. One guy in the states, who's wife does "the business" rakes in $500,000 per annum. I guess his fortune(husband's) is assured and on the money, everytime.
My friends mum also does "it" in Australia from the back of their imported furniture shop. I have no idea how much money she makes but her daughter tells me that the furniture sales hav'nt been paying for the plush cars and the overseas holidays.
Have fun with your readings. |
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fusionbarnone
Joined: 31 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Alexander the great had a "soothsayer" too. He'd consult before his important events(battles) and other such appointments(impending battles) on a regular basis. It was irrelevant what the crystal gazer would say however as Alexander would do his own thing regardless.
A japanese samurai chieftain was reputed to have looked depressed only days before an important battle. Concerned, his lieutainant inquired as to what ailed his boss. His boss told him that the fortune had informed him that should he fight this battle, he would surely die. The fortune teller was summoned and asked whether this was true of which he nodded emphatically. Then, the lieutainant inquired about the fortune teller's own fortune and was told that he would live long, prosper and have many children. Within seconds of hearing this, the lieutanant had drawn his sword and had lopped the head off the fortune teller's shoulders. Turning to his boss he said," If a man cannot predict his own death, how can he ever hope to predict the death of others". The battle went ahead as scheduled.
The alphabet soup agencies also dabbled in the possibilities of clairvoyance and in particular remote viewing(obsolete now because of satelites).
They first established the clinical trials with trained scientists, etc, in order to investigate the,"possibilities". Further along, esp research took a different approach. Fortune tellers were hired. This annoyed the impressively lettered professionals to no end, who saw nothing more than an "amateur collective" impinging on serious research time and upsetting"scientifically weighted methodologies." It seemed the fortune tellers provided great entertainment for staff, but nothing of quantifiable scientific relevance throughout the trials.
A supposed working model of this research was also raised. About 10 years ago, Saddam Hussein was reputed to have cursed a particular US agency, as he had believed he was under psychic attack.
When the question was recently raised about the project and esp in general. a representative was recorded as saying "We spent $21,000,000, and we found it doesn't work".
Another 2 cents |
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philinkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| So whats on the radar next for you PW? Was there any specific reasoning behind your decision to leave Korea now or did it just feel like it was to move on to something different? |
cheers for asking. in truth i really like it here. my second year has been much better than my first. I found my niche nicely and its been great. Actually this is my 3rd year away from england with the first being in australia. except a few months break in between the 2 years in korea.
Im going to go back and study a starter course in counselling which was always my idea then just keep researching into options and see how much i enjoy that and maybe do an MA. I know korea is still here and i can only improve my situation. I guess its just that I dont want to live here forever or teach english forever although both could be done again at some point. So I think its cool to start something I see as a bit more longterm perhaps. Cheers and carry on enjoying korea, Im going to miss it and keep the memories fond but who knows i could always be back. never know |
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