Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Vince]

I just read an interesting article that suggested that the alliance between S. Korea and the US is in trouble. I think the article sensationalizes it, but I wonder how South Koreans would react if, hypothetically, the US announced that it intended to end the alliance. What do you think?

[Derrek]

SK's, unhappy with their country, will and already are blaming the USA for every shortcoming in Korean world power. Comments like, "The USA just wanted to separate Korea so it couldn't become a world power" are commonly believed these days.

If the USA leaves, the USA will be called anti-Korean, and be said to have abandoned SK.

Koreans want to have their cake and eat it to. They want to hate the USA for being here, but they don't want the USA to leave anytime soon. And when the USA leaves... regardless of the situation, or when... Koreans want to be able to say, "They abandoned us!"

Government officials in Korea are already trying to blame the Dokdo situation on the USA, claming they must come out in support of Korea. They are saying that the USA is abandoning Korea because they like Japan better.

[JacktheCat]

The crux of the problem is that no matter what the South Koreans may think about the US, they need America and the alliance a lot more than the US needs South Korea.

South Korea is surrounded by some very unfriendly and strong neighbours and doesn't have a whole lot of friends. They need big brother America to watch out for them, and get their back if the shit ever hits the fan.

This is why no matter how much the general Korean public may bitch and moan about American and blame it for all it's problems, the Korean government is in no hurry to end the alliance and the presence of US troops.

[funplanet]

Perhaps it's time they sink or swim on their own...I would love to see the US military pull out and end all security agreements with the SKG

They need to grow up and join the real world and perhaps a little shock treatment would help 'em....China wants them, China can have them

You want us back? uh, sorry but no. We'll stick with our friends thank you very much

but as always, if the s* were to hit the fan the US would be right by their side and the US would still get no gratitude....

[mercury]

It is hanging by a thread. Soon the U.S and Japan will become a unified front with South Korea alone, standing in the shadow of China, and having to come begging forgiveness for being so brash. South Korea is scared to death as China moves closer and closer. Samsung is trying like crazy to get their name into the "minds" of America before the China waves hit. The future of Korea is very dim. The people are desperate and nervous about the economy and their future. Their way of coping..............denial. Denial and learning English and studying all night and day.

[sadsac]

If the US withdrew from Korea, the economy would fall in a hole. It's not only the security of the penninsula, but also all that lovely money that they spend.

[mercury]

No kidding, they have had security for the past 50 years. It has given them a chance to grow and work like ***** at catching up with the free world. But the sad thing is the fact that this new generation has never seen what the old generation saw. They think all of the security came from themselves, I hope they find out the truth.

[tzechuk]

I really want to say something on this but I am afraid that this board is screened and that we will get into trouble... not a lot of REAL freedom of speech in this country, really, is there?

[Ryst Helmut]

[SuperFly]

The South can defend itself from the North all by itself....right?

[rapier]

Pull them out.
Go for it..most of them want to go home anyway, poor b****rds.
If the North invades, let the U.N step in...although they probably wouldn't be required.
I think the south is capable of defending itself now anyway. Heres why:

The Mythical North Korea Threat
Lying about the Korean situation has become a cornerstone of the Pentagon's effort to boost military spending beyond Cold War levels.

The Korean conflict is over, but Cold War warriors refuse to accept this reality because they need a "threat." In 1994, the Military-Industrialist worked the media and politicians into a war hysteria which almost caused President Clinton to order air strikes in North Korea. In his book "Hazardous Duty," retired Colonel David Hackworth describes his trip to Korea in which he uncovered this phony threat. Fortunately, former President Jimmy Carter heard the war drums and flew to North Korea as a private citizen and ended the phantom crisis.

When Pentagon officials talk about the need to maintain a "two-war" capability, they often refer to Korea. This is absurd since South Korea can crush North Korea without American help. North Korea's million-man army may look impressive on paper, but remember that Iraq had a million-man army, which also had modern equipment, combat experience, and plenty of fuel.

In contrast, North Korean soldiers suffer from malnutrition and rarely train due to a scarcity of fuel and ammo. Most North Korean soldiers could not attack because they are needed to defend the entire DMZ and coastal approaches (they remember the 1950 landing at Inchon) while entire divisions must remain throughout North Korea to fend off heliborne offensives, food riots, and probable coups.

On the other hand, the entire 700,000 man South Korean active duty army can be devoted to the defense of Seoul. The modern South Korean army is backed by over 5,000,000 well-trained reservists who can be called to duty in hours. South Korea has twice the population of the North, thirty times its economic power, and spends three times more on its military each year. South Korean military equipment is first class whereas most of the North Korean military equipment is over 30 years old and much is inoperable due to a lack of maintenance. If war broke out, South Korea has a massive industrial capacity and $94 billion in foreign currency reserves to sustain a war, while North Korea has no industry and no money. As a result, South Korea is roughly five times more powerful than North Korea.

If North Korea insanely attacked, the South Koreans would fight on mountainous and urban terrain which heavily favors defense, and complete air superiority would shoot up anything the North Koreans put on the road. Assuming the North Koreans could start up a thousand of their old tanks and armored vehicles, they cannot advance through the mountainous DMZ. The South Koreans have fortified, mined, and physically blocked all avenues through these mountains, and it would take North Korean infantry and engineers weeks to clear road paths while under fire.

The North Korean military could gain a few thousand meters with human wave assaults into minefields and concrete fortifications. However, these attacks would bog down from heavy casualties, and a lack of food and ammo resupply. Fighting would be bloody as thousands of South Korean and American troops and civilians suffer from North Korean artillery and commando attacks. Nevertheless, the North Korean army would be unable to breakthrough or move supplies forward. Even if North Korea magically broke through, all military analysts scoff at the idea that the North Koreans could bridge large rivers or move tons of supplies forward while under attack from American airpower.

It is important to remember that the last Korean war involved Chinese forces supported by North Koreans with the latest Soviet equipment and supplies. China and Russia no longer aid North Korea and trade openly with South Korea. Thousands of Chinese soldiers guard the Yalu River to prevent crossings by starving North Koreans. North Korean soldiers no longer train for war, but spend most hours harvesting crops, while their old aircraft and ancient tanks sit idle from a lack of fuel and parts. In 1999, Lt. Gen. Patrick Hughes, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told Congress that discipline in the North Korean army had collapsed, and that refugees report soldiers stealing food at gun point. Nighttime satellite pictures reveal few lights in the North because of a lack of electricity.

Even if North Korea employs a few crude nuclear weapons, using them would be suicidal since it would invite instant retaliation from the United States. North Korea lacks the technical know-how to build an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile, despite the hopes and lies from the National Missile Defense proponents in the USA. North Korea's industrial production is almost zero, over two million people have starved in recent years, and millions of homeless nomads threaten internal revolution.

The US military ignores this reality and retains old plans for the deployment of 450,000 GIs to help defend South Korea, even though the superior South Korean military can halt any North Korean offensive without help from a single American soldier. American forces are not even required for a counter-offensive. A North Korean attack would stall after a few intense days and South Korean forces would soon be in position to overrun North Korea. American air and naval power along with logistical and intelligence support would ensure the rapid collapse of the North Korean army.

However, South Korean leaders would be distressed about economic losses and the cost of occupying the North. They would have little incentive to overrun North Korea quickly if 450,000 free spending American GIs with billions of dollars in American military aid were on the way. Rather than quickly overrunning the North, South Korean leaders may demobilize some units to restart its economy. Hopefully, Americans will realize that something is wrong when infantrymen from Kansas are deployed to invade North Korea while infantrymen from Seoul are sent home. Perhaps they will recall the logic of President Lyndon Johnson who said in 1964 that he was "not about to send American boys nine or ten thousand miles from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing themselves." If South Koreans are unwilling to defend their nation from poverty stricken cousins from the North, why should Americans defend them? The USA imports no vital resources from Korea; the consumer items imported from South Korea are readily available elsewhere.

Chinese participation is extremely unlikely since China is busy with its free enterprise transformation while ensuring domestic tranquility. In fact, stopping thousands of starving North Korean refugees from crossing their border has become a major problem, although the Chinese refuse to spend any of their billions of dollars in US trade surpluses to purchase food for their old ally. Korea has no natural resources which interest China, and Chinese support would cause a major war with powerful South Korea, the United States, and probably Japan and Taiwan. On the other hand, a prosperous Korea provides a buffer against China's traditional enemy - Japan.

The US Army must adapt to the end of the Cold War in Asia and stop wasting millions of dollars on new military construction projects in Korea. Second, the North Koreans have stated that the 37,000 American troops must go before peace talks can progress. (Imagine how South Korea would feel if 37,000 Russian troops were based in North Korea.) Many South Koreans know that American troops are no longer needed and anti-American base protests are common.

The United States must support peace efforts by announcing that 17,000 soldiers will withdraw from South Korea within two years. The US Army could move the headquarters for the 2nd Infantry Division and one combat brigade to Washington State to join two combat brigades at Fort Lewis to form a solid combat-ready division near Pacific ports. This would allow the US Army to close several camps in Korea, which would eliminate several thousand military and civilian base support billets, and save millions of dollars each year from base operations and overseas shipments. Pulling 17,000 soldiers from Korea will also increase morale and readiness since most Korea positions are filled with one-year unaccompanied tours.

This would leave one combat brigade in Korea, which could become part of the 25th Infantry Division in Hawaii. This brigade and two US Air Force wings could remain as a symbolic presence of 20,000 American troops until a peace agreement is formalized. The billions of dollars saved could be used to improve Army readiness and the thousands of support personnel freed could fill gaps in other units. Army Generals may dispute savings by pointing to the $333 million a year in "burden sharing" by the South Korean government. However, not one penny of this money is paid to the US military, but goes to Koreans for land rent and some base services.

If the US military pulled 17,000 soldiers out of Korea, there is no reason why this contribution must shrink. South Korea spends less of it's GDP on its military each year than the United States. The US Army has complained about maintaining Patriot missile batteries and Apache attack helicopters in South Korea; a burden it imposed on itself in 1994. Meanwhile, South Korea has refused to purchase these advanced weapons with the billions of dollars in annual trade surpluses with the United States. If South Korea is truly concerned about the North Korean threat, it has the resources to expand its military and buy the latest military equipment from the United States.

The Center for Defense Information estimates that US military business injects almost $5 billion a year into the South Korean economy. Shifting some of this activity to Fort Lewis would spur economic activity in Washington State. Closing unneeded overseas bases is far cheaper than domestic bases and the economic impact is actually positive as spending shifts to American communities. However, this will be opposed in Washington DC as lobbyists representing Korea and certain corporations politic to keep "their" bases open, and by Army Generals seeking to retain an outdated mission.

The chance of a Korean war is extremely unlikely. North Korean leaders realize they have no hope of success without major backing from China or Russia. The previous South Korean President, Kim Dae Jung, encouraged peace and visited North Korea. The two countries are reconnecting rail lines and sent a combined team to the Olympics. Even the United States is providing $500 million dollars a year in food to the starving North Koreans. The new South Korean President, Roh-Moo-hyun was elected on a peace platform and suggested US troops may be gone within ten years.

It may take many years for the two Koreas to unite, meanwhile the USA can contribute to peace and save billions of dollars by starting a withdrawal of forces. The US Army can increase its ability to deploy expeditionary forces in Asia by cutting infrastructure in Korea and forming a solid division at Fort Lewis. The USA already has a huge logistical infrastructure in Japan, Hawaii and Guam, it doesn't need bases in Korea. American forces should continue to train with South Korea, but the $5 billion a year military base subsidy to South Korea must end. Unfortunately, lying about the Korean situation has become a cornerstone of the Pentagon's effort to boost military spending beyond Cold War levels.

[tzechuk]

The moment the US leaves Korea, I am too.

[dbee]

[Ryst Helmut]

[rapier]

[quote="dbee"][
The reality is, is that the bigger, tougher, stronger northerns quote]

Have you seen those poor malnourished critters up there? Every photo i've seen of a North Korean pictured with a foreign tourist shows them as thin 5ft runts.

The reality is that 50 years of ruination has left North koreans unable to lift a paperweight, never mind defeat the strong SK army. The only card protecting them now is Kim's Nuclear device rhetoric.