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DrewAgain
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| Having said that....you never ever hear a korean talk about what Hitler did! What Hitler did was far worse than what Japan ever did to korea! Far worse!! But..you don't hear the Jews, Pols, etc. crying and complaining about the Germans! Get over it koreans! Move on and think about something else besides your own small world. |
The Germans have been much more willing to acknowledge their past. Sure, we don't see the Jews and Poles complaining as much as the Koreans, but we also never got to see Koizumi kneel down in Seoul, ala Willy Brandt in Warsaw. Not that Koizumi should have to go that far, but why is it so hard to offer a formal apology and compensation to the still-living comfort women? Canada compensated the Japanese-Canadians over their internment in WW2. Why can't Japan do the same? It seems like a small price to pay to take the initiative to improve relations with the rest of Asia. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| DrewAgain wrote: |
| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| Having said that....you never ever hear a korean talk about what Hitler did! What Hitler did was far worse than what Japan ever did to korea! Far worse!! But..you don't hear the Jews, Pols, etc. crying and complaining about the Germans! Get over it koreans! Move on and think about something else besides your own small world. |
The Germans have been much more willing to acknowledge their past. Sure, we don't see the Jews and Poles complaining as much as the Koreans, but we also never got to see Koizumi kneel down in Seoul, ala Willy Brandt in Warsaw. Not that Koizumi should have to go that far, but why is it so hard to offer a formal apology and compensation to the still-living comfort women? Canada compensated the Japanese-Canadians over their internment in WW2. Why can't Japan do the same? It seems like a small price to pay to take the initiative to improve relations with the rest of Asia. |
Why don't I admit to a string of crimes which I didn't commit? The Japanese role in the comfort women issue is unclear. We do know that many Koreans profited from these prostitutes though. Korean soldiers fighting against the allies were more than appreciative of the company. Is it possible that Koreans played an equal part in the exploitation of these women? Absolutely. |
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DrewAgain
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| Why don't I admit to a string of crimes which I didn't commit? |
Speechless. I feel like I'm reading something from the Institute for Historical Review. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
| shakuhachi wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
| ���� ������ �ȳ����±�. ����ü ��� ������ ���°ž�? ȥ�� ������ ���� �� ��Ű�� �ֳ�. �ⲯ ���ڰ� �� ���ϼ��� ���� å�̳� �ο��ϸ鼭 �� ��� ����ϰڴٴ� ����. ���� �� �̷��� ������ ���� �ų�? otz |
Gwangjuboy�� ���� ����� ����� ��ź ���ױ� ������ ������� ���� ����ϰ� �ֱ���. ����̾߸��� ������ ���� �ݾ�?�������� �dz��� ���������� �ѱ�� ��� �͵� �������� ������ �˰� �ִٱ���.
�ʴ� ���� ���� �� �ϴ� ������ �ѱ��ο� ������ �ʾ�. �� ���� ������ ����� �������� �ѱ����̾�?
I wish the other most of the other people here could understand what you wrote and see how insulting and arrogant it is. |
�� �� �ȶ��� ô�� ȥ�� �� �ϴ���... ���� ���� ���� �������̱���.
���� ����� �ź��ߴٴ°ų�? ���� �� ��, ���־��̰� �� �� ���о���? �װ� �ο��� å�� ���� �� �����. ���� �ı�(�� �� ��Ȯ�� ���ϸ� �Ĺ��� �����̴� ���������̶�� �ؾ߰ڱ�)�� ����� �Ĺ����� ���缺�� ���ϸ鼭 �ⲯ ���ϼ��� ���� ���� �� ����̳İ�. ���� ���� �ٺ���� �ϴ��� ��. ���� ������ �Ϲݷ����� �������� ���� ������ ����� ������ �̾߱� �� ����. ��? ������ ���� å�� �а� �� ������ �ϴ��� ��� �� �� �� ���ڰ�.
��п� ���� ���� �Ÿ� ������ ��ġ�� ����. |
I think I get the gist of this rant. Why you have problems with the Kim Ill Sung book is well beyond my understanding. The book goes into astonishing detail about the anti-Japan movement, and conditions in Japan during the occupation. It also features extensive interviews with cheongryo members. You are a rude, and rather dull distraction in this debate. I will treat you with even more caution than I did before. You are an intellectual lightweight unprepared to bow down infront of the alter of truth and enlightenment. A sycophant to historians of the sugar coated variety. May my beacon of truth shine right before your eyes and pierce the hold that propoganda has taken on you. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:28 am Post subject: |
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G-boy, while I usually enjoy and respect your posts, this time you baffled me.
You cannot seriously mean that the Japanese occupation was benign and well intended.
They perpetrated atrocious crimes on the Chinese and on all other asian nations they occupied. Imperial occupation was brutal and relegated locals to second class citizen status.
Japan, unlike Germany, never truly owned up to their war crimes. Yet, war crimes there were, just ask the chinese at nankin.
As for Korea, the occupation lasted 40 years and it may have had some marginal benefits but I seriously doubt that it was beneficial or gentle. |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
G-boy, while I usually enjoy and respect your posts, this time you baffled me.
You cannot seriously mean that the Japanese occupation was benign and well intended.
They perpetrated atrocious crimes on the Chinese and on all other asian nations they occupied. Imperial occupation was brutal and relegated locals to second class citizen status.
Japan, unlike Germany, never truly owned up to their war crimes. Yet, war crimes there were, just ask the chinese at nankin.
As for Korea, the occupation lasted 40 years and it may have had some marginal benefits but I seriously doubt that it was beneficial or gentle. |
Well if you are going to talk about war crimes, point out some. And keep it on topic - war crimes in Korea. |
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funplanet
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Location: The new Bucheon!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:59 am Post subject: |
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and let us not forget the hideous crimes they perpetrated against the Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc...
and don't forget that they cut off the breasts of Brit and American nurses in the Philippines and Singapore....for fun
read the book "The Rape of Nanking." absolutely sickening, the barbarity of the Japanese...
I understand why the Koreans are a little upset.... |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
G-boy, while I usually enjoy and respect your posts, this time you baffled me.
You cannot seriously mean that the Japanese occupation was benign and well intended.
They perpetrated atrocious crimes on the Chinese and on all other asian nations they occupied. Imperial occupation was brutal and relegated locals to second class citizen status.
Japan, unlike Germany, never truly owned up to their war crimes. Yet, war crimes there were, just ask the chinese at nankin.
As for Korea, the occupation lasted 40 years and it may have had some marginal benefits but I seriously doubt that it was beneficial or gentle. |
Basically I busted out the books and did a lot of reading after reading about the topic on here. I always felt that the Japanese were being milked by Chinese and Korean claims of war crimes, but I wasn't completely certain. I readily acknowledge the Japanese commited crimes, but these were no worse than what was happening in the late 1800's under Korean monarchial rule. Coupled with the undoubted positive economic impact of colonial rule I am afraid that I can no longer swallow the sugar coated version of history unbiquitous in Korea. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| funplanet wrote: |
and let us not forget the hideous crimes they perpetrated against the Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc...
and don't forget that they cut off the *beep* of Brit and American nurses in the Philippines and Singapore....for fun |
Yes but the Brits are cool and have more or less forgiven and forgotten. I know I have.
| Quote: |
| read the book "The Rape of Nanking." absolutely sickening, the barbarity of the Japanese... |
Did the book cover come with icing and sugar? Lets treat Chinese accounts, and rehashed Western accounts of the same propoganda with caution. The rape of Nanking took place, but the numbers have been heavily inflated by the Chinese. When people considered ponying up compo the numbers of the dead suddenly shot up as if by magic. Looking at census records too, Nanking turned into a metropolis when the buried were being taken into account.
| Quote: |
| I understand why the Koreans are a little upset |
I do too in certain respects. Why they have to grossly exaggerate their history as a result is baffling. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:25 am Post subject: |
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All is fair in love and war.
Why should you have to apologise for something done in wartime? There are no rules. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
year Yangban Sangmin Noby(%)
1729 26.29 59.78 13.93
1765 40.98 57.01 2.00
1804 53.47 45.61 0.92
1867 65.48 33.96 0.56
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In 1867 65% of people were Yangban? What a joke. It is well known by that time that many people were buying fake family trees to show they were descended from 'Yangban'. It didnt mean a thing for their actual economic status, and the real Yangban knew who they were.
The vast majority of people were horribly impoverished, and the average life expectancy in Korea was 24 years old. |
Let me try to explain this...it's just my little theory, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. By the mid 19th century, there had been some peasants rebelions in Korea. Now, when do peasants usually start to stir things up? When they start claiming the land they work. So, by claiming the land, in their eyes they owned the land...which made them land-owners...yangban. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| shakuhachi wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
year Yangban Sangmin Noby(%)
1729 26.29 59.78 13.93
1765 40.98 57.01 2.00
1804 53.47 45.61 0.92
1867 65.48 33.96 0.56
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In 1867 65% of people were Yangban? What a joke. It is well known by that time that many people were buying fake family trees to show they were descended from 'Yangban'. It didnt mean a thing for their actual economic status, and the real Yangban knew who they were.
The vast majority of people were horribly impoverished, and the average life expectancy in Korea was 24 years old. |
Let me try to explain this...it's just my little theory, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. By the mid 19th century, there had been some peasants rebelions in Korea. Now, when do peasants usually start to stir things up? When they start claiming the land they work. So, by claiming the land, in their eyes they owned the land...which made them land-owners...yangban. |
So the Japanese were welcomed with opened arms by the yangban? (50% of Korea according to the fairytail accounts). |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| shakuhachi wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
year Yangban Sangmin Noby(%)
1729 26.29 59.78 13.93
1765 40.98 57.01 2.00
1804 53.47 45.61 0.92
1867 65.48 33.96 0.56
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In 1867 65% of people were Yangban? What a joke. It is well known by that time that many people were buying fake family trees to show they were descended from 'Yangban'. It didnt mean a thing for their actual economic status, and the real Yangban knew who they were.
The vast majority of people were horribly impoverished, and the average life expectancy in Korea was 24 years old. |
Let me try to explain this...it's just my little theory, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. By the mid 19th century, there had been some peasants rebelions in Korea. Now, when do peasants usually start to stir things up? When they start claiming the land they work. So, by claiming the land, in their eyes they owned the land...which made them land-owners...yangban. |
Sorry, but there is nothing to your theory. Although Korea was a society in decline, the government still had the power to crush peasant opposition. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| DrewAgain wrote: |
| Not that Koizumi should have to go that far, but why is it so hard to offer a formal apology and compensation to the still-living comfort women? Canada compensated the Japanese-Canadians over their internment in WW2. Why can't Japan do the same? It seems like a small price to pay to take the initiative to improve relations with the rest of Asia. |
Japan already gave a lot of money to the Korean government back in the 1960s that was to go to be given to anyone who served as a comfort woman, volunteer or not. Only that the Korean government then embezzelled the money.
That's one of the reasons why the Korean government was fighting not to have the agreements with Japan signed in the 1960s unsealed. When they were finally unsealed by court order earlier this year, it showed that the Korean government had indeed received the money Japan has claimed it paid to compensate comfort women, and that everyone could see that it was the Korean government that stole the money. And add to this that they have already apologized.
They've already done everything you want them to do. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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