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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| peemil wrote: |
Mate. It's your classroom. Your rules. It's not a democracy. Just enforce as you see fit.
Just be mean. I am. I am mean to start of with. I set the boundaries and after time I lighten up. But I still enforce the boundaries.
I keep getting new classes with children from other hagwons in the area. These kids are brats. But I've got a few of them in order, just by coming down like a ton of bricks. Even for simple stuff. Because if you don't bite the simple stuff, it's got a habit of growing into big stuff. |
Funny - I have a kid in one of my classes who's going in that exact direction (hasn't tried to bite me yet, but certainly doesn't want to give up the marker pen). Only in my case the one boy in the class is the best kid at the hogwan. |
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JacktheCat
Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Now that I'm teaching in the public school system, I can see why the kiddies go ape shit once they get to a hagwon with a foreign teacher.
Seven hours of strictly enforced discipline, having to bow down and worship the Korean teacher, being beaten if they step out of line.
No wonder they act up and disrespect the foreign teacher. It's the only time in their strictly regimented lives they actually have a chance to let loose and act crazy. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JacktheCat wrote: |
No wonder they act up and disrespect the foreign teacher. It's the only time in their strictly regimented lives they actually have a chance to let loose and act crazy. |
Foreigner gets to cop all the Cr*p every time, the system is rigged to ensure this. |
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chiaa
Joined: 23 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Kids go nuts at a hogwon for a number of reasons. I think the first main reasons is that they, don't have any kind structure and lack of a challange.
I had a really hard time my first couple of months teaching. I then started to structure every class the same. The did some pronunciation practice, taught some grammer, and ended the class with some kind of project. Korean kids really like to have a project where they can see the results of said project immediately. If they finished those three things up, then the time at the end was for BSing or maybe a puzzle of some kind. Otherwise I never played a game (but still made the class fun).
You might need to make the class more difficult. Are the kids bored with the material? Do they just sit there and soak up information or are they required to think a bit and learn soemthing? If the kids can see that the class is really helping them and they are progessing, nine times out of ten they will try even harder.
The kids, while not thinking this in the fore front of their minds might not see you (or the hogwon) as professional or a place to learn something. But it is in the back of their mind and that is perhaps why they act like this.
Believe it or not, I actually used a big stick in my class. I dont like hitting the kids, but for many of them, it is the only thing that works. The good thing is that once they get the message that you mean business (a few wacks) you no longer have to do it. The threat alone is enough (I would hit the stick on my desk and scare the shit out of them). I am sure that the Korean teachers at your school have/use them. If they do, just go ahead and do it without asking. If they don't, you might want to get permission first. You don't have to hit the kids hard to have any effect either. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| chiaa wrote: |
Kids go nuts at a hogwon for a number of reasons. I think the first main reasons is that they, don't have any kind structure and lack of a challange.
I had a really hard time my first couple of months teaching. I then started to structure every class the same. The did some pronunciation practice, taught some grammer, and ended the class with some kind of project. Korean kids really like to have a project where they can see the results of said project immediately. If they finished those three things up, then the time at the end was for BSing or maybe a puzzle of some kind. Otherwise I never played a game (but still made the class fun).
You might need to make the class more difficult. Are the kids bored with the material? Do they just sit there and soak up information or are they required to think a bit and learn soemthing? If the kids can see that the class is really helping them and they are progessing, nine times out of ten they will try even harder.
The kids, while not thinking this in the fore front of their minds might not see you (or the hogwon) as professional or a place to learn something. But it is in the back of their mind and that is perhaps why they act like this.
Believe it or not, I actually used a big stick in my class. I dont like hitting the kids, but for many of them, it is the only thing that works. The good thing is that once they get the message that you mean business (a few wacks) you no longer have to do it. The threat alone is enough (I would hit the stick on my desk and scare the *beep* out of them). I am sure that the Korean teachers at your school have/use them. If they do, just go ahead and do it without asking. If they don't, you might want to get permission first. You don't have to hit the kids hard to have any effect either. |
All very good advice, except for the big stick part... at least I think it would send a pretty bad message that it's OK for a young man to hit teenage girls (even though there are a couple in this class who are almost enough to make a bleeding-heart liberal like me think that corporal punishment might not be such a bad idea). Your idea of having projects to do in class is, I think, a really good one. I actually tried that today in one of my younger classes - label the endangered species and then label the continents they're from on a map I came across and photocopied - and it went off really well. The same goes for needing more challenging material. We're making these 15yo girls read a plotless book about some little kids' week at camp. We're supposed to do two pages a lesson, four lessons in a row. Just because they act like little kids themselves doesn't mean they'll enjoy a book about them. Next lesson I'm photocopying Harry Potter. But, the director wants us to only to supplement the cirriculum, or something typically vague like that.
The main problem, however, is the complete, absolute *ambiguity* we're getting from the top about what, exactly, we are to do or can try re: disciplinary problems. I feel really sorry for the new supervisor because she's stuck between the reality we describe and the fantasy BS the director expects her to produce with no disciplinary resources. We're also supposed to focus more on grammar at the higher levels because the kids from our hogwan aren't doing very well at their school grammar tests (gee, I wonder why on earth that could be?  ). And there just aren't that many ways to make grammar fun.
Anyways the co-teaching starts next week. We'll see what happens. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| JacktheCat wrote: |
Now that I'm teaching in the public school system, I can see why the kiddies go ape *beep* once they get to a hagwon with a foreign teacher.
Seven hours of strictly enforced discipline, having to bow down and worship the Korean teacher, being beaten if they step out of line.
No wonder they act up and disrespect the foreign teacher. It's the only time in their strictly regimented lives they actually have a chance to let loose and act crazy. |
I think you've hit the nail right on the head here. |
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guangho
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahhh peemil muy compadre, if life were that simple. First week of class we went through the hold a book over your head, stand outside, bow down and touch your toes and don't stand straight until I tell you too strict foreign teacher bit. Week 3, the complaints started rolling in. My boss, speaking in all innocence "they are not having fun in your class." Then we went to the "if you play with cellphone/marker/yoyo/etc you get one warning and then I'll take it away" phase. No punishments or anything just taking it away from the kid and keeping the class moving in the meanwhile. Sure enough "parent complained that you took Louis's yo-yo away". What they really want is for me to call the KT if things get rough b/c that's the only person the kids respect. (At least that's my take on it.) I don't do this because I'm not about to reinforce the "Korean teacher is real teach and guangho is insignificant nugget of guano" theory. At least I can speak with the new Korean teacher in English-sometimes. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| guangho wrote: |
| Ahhh peemil muy compadre, if life were that simple. First week of class we went through the hold a book over your head, stand outside, bow down and touch your toes and don't stand straight until I tell you too strict foreign teacher bit. Week 3, the complaints started rolling in. My boss, speaking in all innocence "they are not having fun in your class." Then we went to the "if you play with cellphone/marker/yoyo/etc you get one warning and then I'll take it away" phase. No punishments or anything just taking it away from the kid and keeping the class moving in the meanwhile. Sure enough "parent complained that you took Louis's yo-yo away". What they really want is for me to call the KT if things get rough b/c that's the only person the kids respect. (At least that's my take on it.) I don't do this because I'm not about to reinforce the "Korean teacher is real teach and guangho is insignificant nugget of guano" theory. At least I can speak with the new Korean teacher in English-sometimes. |
Samesitu at my school: the clueless director has ordered greater discipline in the classes..of course when the complaints hit the fan, he'll come out with "your classes aretoo boring, give the kids more fun and games"
I know directors better than they know their own minds...which is why I just ignore their see-saw insanity and stick with what works for me in my classes. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| guangho wrote: |
| Ahhh peemil muy compadre, if life were that simple. First week of class we went through the hold a book over your head, stand outside, bow down and touch your toes and don't stand straight until I tell you too strict foreign teacher bit. Week 3, the complaints started rolling in. My boss, speaking in all innocence "they are not having fun in your class." Then we went to the "if you play with cellphone/marker/yoyo/etc you get one warning and then I'll take it away" phase. No punishments or anything just taking it away from the kid and keeping the class moving in the meanwhile. Sure enough "parent complained that you took Louis's yo-yo away". What they really want is for me to call the KT if things get rough b/c that's the only person the kids respect. (At least that's my take on it.) I don't do this because I'm not about to reinforce the "Korean teacher is real teach and guangho is insignificant nugget of guano" theory. At least I can speak with the new Korean teacher in English-sometimes. |
Out of curiosity, what do you do when a fifteen-year-old starts throwing everyone else's papers and books around, because the kids who made a half-hearted attempt to go through the grammar lesson got a candy and she didn't, and then stands right in front of you stomping her feet and screaming for candy when you try to move on to the next part of the lesson?
To add irony to farce, one of the new words in the next book was 'tantrum'. |
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guangho
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| I don't give candy in front of the other kids. I keep a list of good kids and at the end of the week I give them candy from my drawer. |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| guangho wrote: |
| Ahhh peemil muy compadre, if life were that simple. First week of class we went through the hold a book over your head, stand outside, bow down and touch your toes and don't stand straight until I tell you too strict foreign teacher bit. Week 3, the complaints started rolling in. My boss, speaking in all innocence "they are not having fun in your class." Then we went to the "if you play with cellphone/marker/yoyo/etc you get one warning and then I'll take it away" phase. No punishments or anything just taking it away from the kid and keeping the class moving in the meanwhile. Sure enough "parent complained that you took Louis's yo-yo away". What they really want is for me to call the KT if things get rough b/c that's the only person the kids respect. (At least that's my take on it.) I don't do this because I'm not about to reinforce the "Korean teacher is real teach and guangho is insignificant nugget of guano" theory. At least I can speak with the new Korean teacher in English-sometimes. |
Out of curiosity, what do you do when a fifteen-year-old starts throwing everyone else's papers and books around, because the kids who made a half-hearted attempt to go through the grammar lesson got a candy and she didn't, and then stands right in front of you stomping her feet and screaming for candy when you try to move on to the next part of the lesson?
To add irony to farce, one of the new words in the next book was 'tantrum'. |
Take her stuff away and lock it up. After class, sit her down and make her write a one-page apology (in Korean if her English isn't good enough). Well, that's what I would do anyways. Oh, and I'd stop giving them candy. Giving candy as rewards to kids is one habit I never picked up on and personally I don't think it's a good one. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:14 am Post subject: |
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I think if a 15 yr old girl stood in front of me stomping her feet and crying about not getting candy because she screwed up, I would probably
a) grab her hand, turn it palm up and smack it as hard as I could with my hand, then
b) take her by the shoulders and march her to a corner and put her in it. After she was quiet for 10 minutes straight, I'd let her go back to her seat.
c) at the end of class I'd march her to the director and explain about her throwing the other students' papers around. I would tell the director the girl was welcome to return to class when she was ready to make an apology to the other students. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Again, lots of good suggestions. Next week I'm in the class with the KT the whole time. She's the supervisor; it's up to her to determine how problems get handled; she's got a waygukin who works out every day at her disposal. Unlike with the kindie kids, with whom I'm admittedly useless and at a loss for ideas, I have no shortage of lesson and disciplinary ideas, and know from other classes that I can amaze myself with how much certain kids can learn when we have something new to do every class. Will the new supervisor have the guts to do what it takes to see how much we can learn in an hour and fifteen minutes or will we see how many hilarious new stories they can provide me to tell my friends back home? We'll see. |
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chiaa
Joined: 23 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Again, lots of good suggestions. Next week I'm in the class with the KT the whole time. She's the supervisor; it's up to her to determine how problems get handled; she's got a waygukin who works out every day at her disposal. Unlike with the kindie kids, with whom I'm admittedly useless and at a loss for ideas, I have no shortage of lesson and disciplinary ideas, and know from other classes that I can amaze myself with how much certain kids can learn when we have something new to do every class. Will the new supervisor have the guts to do what it takes to see how much we can learn in an hour and fifteen minutes or will we see how many hilarious new stories they can provide me to tell my friends back home? We'll see. |
Ahh the kindie kids. I had a great way to deal with them. At one hagwon I worked at we had foam flooring that had letters on them. I had about eight kids in there and would assign each to a letter to sit on. We would then do an activity of some sort that would require them to get up from their letter and do something. Like "Sam" can you find the letter A?" Sam would go and find the letter A and then dance back to his assigned letter (seat). This kept them all in control and would allow them to wander around. They would then in turn ask me to find a letter.
I would also take them and line them all up in a row (giving them new letter assignments of course), like on a starting line. I would then hold up one of the wooden block letters we had and the first kid to calmly shout out the letter with appropriate pronunciation would get the letter. I would make sure even the dumb kids got a letter too (you would be surprised that the smart ones would let this slide as they knew what I was doing). They got to hold on to the wood block. If they played with it recklessly, they knew the letter would go back in my pile. Once all the letters were handed out, we would then build a pyramid with another set of letters. Each kid was then allowed to hurl their letter at they pyramid, knocking it down. They got a real kick out of this.
I would plan my kindie class in four week blocks. We would do almost the same exact thing every meeting for the four weeks. This made sure the kids actually learned what we were doing, and it gave them some kind of structure. The smartass little shit of the class would even go and get the supplies for the next activity (knowing what would be next and asking if he could get up from his letter first). They would also bitch and moan if I went out of order). At the end of the four weeks I would phase in and phase out one or two of the activities. If you just hit them with a whole new set of things at one time they get pissed off.
My typical class plan would be:
1. Block letter hurling.
2. Me reading out loud to them (calmed them down after the letter throwing).
3. Writing practice. Me drawing the letter on the chalk board and the kids copying).
4. Hot and Cold searching game (they would have to ask me a question for me to respond if they were hot or cold).
5. Coloring (give them one paper and save it for the next class).
6. Question and answer session (what is your favorite color? Do you like______? and this steadily progessed until they were learning different verb forms. Where do you go? Where are you going? etc.)
All six of these things were done in the fifty minute time period. If you sit on any one activity for too long, they get ants in their pants.
Sometimes I would throw in a grammer activity of some sort. Teach them what a noun, verb, or adjective is (adjective is the hardest for some reason.) The Korean teachers and hagwon owner though I was nuts teaching this to six year olds, but believe it or not they caught on very quickly and the hagwon director soon stopped complaining about it being too hard. I would say dog- they would respond noun (I would let them do this in Korean). That smart ass little shit I mentioned earlier even helped me explain it to the slower kids. He was a big help with that actually and made him be a better student because he felt like he had to set an example for the class. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Like Chiaa I enjoy teaching kindergarten. They are much easier to mould into good behavior patterns and their minds are that much more open to learning. Also their enthusiasm is fun.
Alas, the older kids are corrupted and rebellious- its usually too late to try and instil a positive attitude in them, particularly if they've had years of "please the customer" type hagwon education.
With discipline you can only go as far as the system and your director, allows. Often, they allow zero.
You all seem to be instructing Yubumsuk to do such simple measures as "Make them stand in the corner" etc. But what if the student refuses to do even that? And what if after taking them to the wonjangnim, they return smiling because the director has given them candy/sympathised with them/ told them to say hi to dear mom and pop, and can they send that cheque soon?
Not all schools allow even smacking a kids hand: they're too afraid oof pis*ing their precious customers off.
The kids/parents run the hagwons. FACT.
-never mind the lack of morale/energy required to maintain disciplined, focussed, enthusiastic lessons if you are tired out from doing massive overtime everyday to cover for yet another western loser who has just done a runner.. |
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