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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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mithridates

Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
I just wonder if it is such an embarassing thing to simply answer them "Yes, I do use chopstick pretty well." or "Oh I do eat other yummys but, I love sandwiches" without using the worlds like "sarcasm", "lack of logic", "dumb".
I totally agree with schwa. It is different. Most of the time western style sarcasm isn't funny to them. Just like theirs don't work for you. |
Indie, do you know how to turn English verbs into past tense? |
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indiercj

Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
I just wonder if it is such an embarassing thing to simply answer them "Yes, I do use chopstick pretty well." or "Oh I do eat other yummys but, I love sandwiches" without using the worlds like "sarcasm", "lack of logic", "dumb".
I totally agree with schwa. It is different. Most of the time western style sarcasm isn't funny to them. Just like theirs don't work for you. |
Indie, do you know how to turn English verbs into past tense? |
Yes I know. It's a bad habit. How does it sound?
���� ���ߴ³�? |
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Gunshake
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Do Koreans use much sarcasm? |
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[quote="periwinkle"]My co-worker is very educated; has lived/studied in the west; married a kyopo. We were having a small celebration at work yesterday, and he asked me, "Can you use chopsticks?" I thought he was being funny, and the question struck me as so absurd (he knows I've been here for 4 years), that I busted out laughing. I asked him if he was serious, and he seemed really confused that I thought it was a funny question.
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[unquote]
Riding on the subject of 'chopsticks', I will introduce you a Japanese table manner related with using them. There's a lexical form of noun in a Japanese dictionary: 'nigiribashi' with the '-g-' pronounced as 'g-' in 'go'.
It means a way of handling chopsticks not ordinarily and correctly among the thumb, forefinger and the middle finger but grasping both pieces in your palm so that the tips stick out of the blade of your hand downward or in the opposite direction upward. Using chopsticks are not so easy even to orientals, and many children, or low teens in some cases, maneuver them in 'nigiribashi'. In Korea, it is not a problem more than of a laughing stock. In Japan, however, it could be an example of outrageously bad table manners, esp. when elders are around.
A few generations back, assasination was one of the many murder patterns committed in the country, for terminating political foes, simply for a vendetta between feudal rivals, or for whatever purpose. Various weapons were used, but without any other decent tools, chopsticks could be one of the wonderful substitutes to take an unsuspicious victim by surprise on a totally unexpected occasion, for example at a hospitable luncheon given by the victim.
Now no one denies that Japan is one of the most safe and peaceful countries in the world. But 'nigiribashi' is a horrible threat instantly evoking an association with the people's sanguinary past history deep rooted in their genetic memory cells.
Why should 'nigiribashi' by an innocent, nose-running preschooler deserve a harsh reprimand in such an orderly society now? You can call that a social stereotype or collective prejudice or in many other ways as you please.
It is less than a score of years since Korea started to host so many civilian Westerners in its society. You are still 'other people' from unfamiliar cultures using different languages, though one of the major media is English that Koreans strive to learn with so many efforts and difficulties. You are people still to be strenuously understood not to converse with in jests and witticism. Misunderstanding you could cost your Korean interlocutor what you cannot easily imagine.
This is a Korean social stereotype as far as dealing with foreigners is concerned, no matter how your Korean co-worker is proficient in English. You are asking too much of him if you want him to double up with every piece of your offhand jokes. Otherwise, you are nothing but one of small storkes in a huge picture of sarcasm. I am not saying you are in the wrong feeling frustration with dense, humorless Koreans. But it is my recommendation that you had better not employ 'nigiribashi' at a Korean luncheon table.
Last edited by Gunshake on Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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keithinkorea

Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Do Koreans use much sarcasm? |
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[quote="Gunshake"]
| periwinkle wrote: |
My co-worker is very educated; has lived/studied in the west; married a kyopo. We were having a small celebration at work yesterday, and he asked me, "Can you use chopsticks?" I thought he was being funny, and the question struck me as so absurd (he knows I've been here for 4 years), that I busted out laughing. I asked him if he was serious, and he seemed really confused that I thought it was a funny question.
-----------------------
[unquote]
Riding on the subject of 'chopsticks', I will introduce you a Japanese table manner related with using them. There's a lexical form of noun in a Japanese dictionary: 'nigiribashi' with the '-g-' pronounced as 'g-' in 'go'.
It means a way of handling chopsticks not ordinarily and correctly among the thumb, forefinger and the middle finger but grasping both pieces in your palm so that the tips stick out of the blade of your hand downward or in the opposite direction upward. Using chopsticks are not so easy even to orientals, and many children, or low teens in some cases, maneuver them in 'nigiribashi'. In Korea, it is not a problem more than of a laughing stock. In Japan, however, it could be an example of outrageously bad table manners, esp. when elders are around.
A few generations back, assasination was one of the many murders committed in the country, for terminating political foes, simply for a vendetta between feudal rivals, or for whatever. Various weapons were used, but without any other decent tools, chopsticks could be one of the wonderful substitutes to take an unsuspicious victim by surprise on a totally unexpected occasion, for example at a hospitable luncheon given by the victim.
Now no one denies that Japan is one of the most safe and peaceful countries in the world. But 'nigiribashi' is a horrible threat instantly evoking an association with the people's sanguinary past history deep rooted in their genetic memory cells.
Why should 'nigiribashi' by an innocent, nose-running preschooler deserve a harsh reprimand in such an orderly society now? You can call that a social stereotype or collective prejudice or in many other ways as you please.
It is less than a score of years since Korea started to host so many civilian Westerners in its society. You are still 'other people' from unfamiliar cultures using different languages, though one of the major media is English that Koreans strive to learn with so many efforts and difficulties. You are people still to be strenuously understood not to converse with in jests and witticism. Misunderstanding you could cost your Korean interlocutor what you cannot easily imagine.
This is a Korean social stereotype as far as dealing with foreigners is concerned, no matter how your Korean co-worker is proficient in English. You are asking too much of him if you want him to double up with every piece of your offhand jokes. Otherwise, you are nothing but one of small storkes in a huge picture of sarcasm. I am not saying you are in the wrong feeling frustration with dense, humorless Koreans. But it is my recommendation that you had better not employ 'nigiribashi' at a Korean luncheon table. |
Quite an interesting post gunshake, or were you being ironic-sarcastic.
Anyway whenever I even hear the word 'sarcastic' it makes me smile, it always reminds me of the great British comedy artist Alexie Sayle in the show 'The Young Ones'. |
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Bozo Yoroshiku

Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Location: Outside ???'s house with a pair of binoculars
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
| I just wonder if it is such an embarassing thing to simply answer them [...] without using the worlds like "sarcasm", "lack of logic", "dumb". |
So, you're saying that after telling someone I've been here for almost 9 years, it's not dumb of them to ask if I've ever heard of kimchi? This is not an isolated incident, either. It's happened more than a dozen times, certainly. I couldn't answer that question honestly with a straight face if I tried.
boz |
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coolsage
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul
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Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Bozo Yoroshiku wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
| I just wonder if it is such an embarassing thing to simply answer them [...] without using the worlds like "sarcasm", "lack of logic", "dumb". |
So, you're saying that after telling someone I've been here for almost 9 years, it's not dumb of them to ask if I've ever heard of kimchi? This is not an isolated incident, either. It's happened more than a dozen times, certainly. I couldn't answer that question honestly with a straight face if I tried.
boz |
Yes, the unspoken assumption about us westerners is that we all got off the boat twenty minutes ago. At a similar endless 'lunchee' I was asked the same question: "Oh, you can use chopsticks?" After seven years here, and countless years before, eating Chinese food in my home country, I'm fairly adept with the things. My reply; "Yes. Can you use a knife and fork?" That produced an uncomfortable silence during which I finished my meal. |
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indiercj

Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Well, like it or not, that's a way to make yourself a 'jerk' in Korea.
�յ��� ������...
Of course I am not suggesting it is a bad thing or anything. |
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Leslie Cheswyck

Joined: 31 May 2003 Location: University of Western Chile
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Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
Well, like it or not, that's a way to make yourself a 'jerk' in Korea.
�յ��� ������...
Of course I am not suggesting it is a bad thing or anything. |
What, asking the stupid question or delivering the stinging riposte to it? |
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tommynomad

Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Location: on the move
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Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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My gf can be quite dry at times. And she gets sarcasm--I'm a daily victim of it. She also enjoys fart jokes--the complete woman!
My favourite Korean zinger:
I popped some black licorice into my mouth.
Ten eight-year-olds: Oooo! Candy! Teacher, candy!
Me: It's not candy, it's medicine.
Smart kid: Geritol? |
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chronicpride

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Bozo Yoroshiku wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
| I just wonder if it is such an embarassing thing to simply answer them [...] without using the worlds like "sarcasm", "lack of logic", "dumb". |
So, you're saying that after telling someone I've been here for almost 9 years, it's not dumb of them to ask if I've ever heard of kimchi? This is not an isolated incident, either. It's happened more than a dozen times, certainly. I couldn't answer that question honestly with a straight face if I tried.
boz |
Funny. When I'm living in Canada, I can't tell a Chinese tourist who just entered the country yesterday, apart from one who has been living in country for the past 9 years, when I pass them on the street. But Koreans are expected to have that distinguishing radar, which has been fine-tuned from their years of intimately dealing and interacting with foreigners.  |
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Tiberious aka Sparkles

Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: I'm one cool cat!
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| tommynomad wrote: |
| My gf can be quite dry at times. |
Sparkles*_* |
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Bozo Yoroshiku

Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Location: Outside ???'s house with a pair of binoculars
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| Bozo Yoroshiku wrote: |
| So, you're saying that after telling someone I've been here for almost 9 years... |
Funny. When I'm living in Canada, I can't tell a Chinese tourist who just entered the country yesterday, apart from one who has been living in country for the past 9 years, when I pass them on the street. But Koreans are expected to have that distinguishing radar, which has been fine-tuned from their years of intimately dealing and interacting with foreigners.  |
Read it again. I said, "...AFTER TELLING SOMEONE I've been in Korea for 9 years..."
I posted this in another thread, but this is how it goes:
Them: How long you been stay Korea?
Me: Almost nine years.
Them: Waaaaaaah! Do you know kimchi?
Me:
boz |
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