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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject: Verbal Job Offer Not a Contract |
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Verbal Job Offer not a Contract, Court Rules
A verbal promise of employment without specifying position or salary is not a binding contract, the Incheon District Court has ruled. The court on Monday found in favor of a company identified only as N, which was accused by a 31-year-old woman of causing her to become unemployed by not keeping its promise of a job. The woman, identified by her last name Lim, trusted a verbal promise by N's CEO and quit her job before she received an official job offer from the company.
Chosun Ilbo (April 4, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200504/200504040033.html |
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temporos

Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Verbal Job Offer Not a Contract |
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Real Reality wrote: |
A verbal promise of employment without specifying position or salary is not a binding contract, the Incheon District Court has ruled. |
Yeah. Too bad my director doesn't care about court rulings. He was yelling at me yesterday about how I wasn't adhering to his assumptions about how I teach a class. Keep in mind that these were unspoken assumptions, let alone not written... I have a feeling that this is quite common in Korea. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Nature of Contracts in Korea
Koreans see business less as a legally based interaction than a relationship. Consequently, there is a much weaker sense of law in Korean business relations than in international business.... Most Koreans do not view deviations from a contract as a "breach," and few Koreans would consider taking an employer to court over a contract dispute.
Instead, Koreans tend to view contracts as infinitely flexible and subject to further negotiation. Furthermore, the written contract is not the real contract; rather, the unwritten, oral agreement with an employer is the real contract. You should bear these factors in mind when you sign a contract.
Teaching English in Korea - Consular Affairs, Canadian Embassy
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/pubs/korea-en.asp#Contracts
CONTRACTS
Culturally, the written contract is not the real contract; the unwritten, oral agreement that one has with one's employer is the real contract.
Teaching English in Korea, A Guide Complied by American Citizen Services, U.S. Embassy, Seoul
http://seoul.usembassy.gov/wwwh3550.html#contracts
Employment
You should be aware that complaints are frequently received from British nationals teaching English.... There have also been complaints of breach of contract, confiscation of passports, and of payment being withheld. Check that all terms and conditions of employment are clearly stated before accepting an offer and signing a contract. However, written contracts are not necessarily considered binding documents and verbal agreements often take precedence.
British Embassy, Seoul Travel Advice
http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1093348575239 |
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temporos

Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:46 am Post subject: Re: Verbal Job Offer Not a Contract |
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Real Reality wrote: |
A verbal promise of employment without specifying position or salary is not a binding contract... |
Real Reality wrote: |
Culturally, the written contract is not the real contract; the unwritten, oral agreement that one has with one's employer is the real contract. |
Isn't that kind of contradictory? In one case, the oral agreement is meaningless and the written contract is binding. In the other case, the written one is bunk and the oral "agreement" is the valid, legally binding contract? You're making my situation look very grim, indeed, RR... |
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guangho

Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:52 am Post subject: |
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to quote a number of law school classmates- an oral contract isn't worth the paper it was written on. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:14 am Post subject: Re: Verbal Job Offer Not a Contract |
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temporos wrote: |
Real Reality wrote: |
A verbal promise of employment without specifying position or salary is not a binding contract... |
Real Reality wrote: |
Culturally, the written contract is not the real contract; the unwritten, oral agreement that one has with one's employer is the real contract. |
Isn't that kind of contradictory? In one case, the oral agreement is meaningless and the written contract is binding. In the other case, the written one is bunk and the oral "agreement" is the valid, legally binding contract? You're making my situation look very grim, indeed, RR... |
Isn't that kind of contradictory?
You may be learning about Korea.
Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
Overall living conditions, including education, housing, medical care, transportation, immigration, and access to the Internet are pointed to as inconveniences. Not only inconveniences caused by different systems and customs in Korea, but also special discriminating practices, such as the practice of submitting two years of monthly rent in advance like a deposit, which is required of foreigners just because they are foreigners, are ubiquitous.
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (July 4, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448 |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Yap
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:24 am Post subject: |
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The OP has nothing to do with contract conditions. A job offer is not binding if its simply verbal. RR is a weasel poster. |
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temporos

Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:26 am Post subject: only in Korea? |
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I've heard from several reliable sources (ugh, now I sound like the US gov't.) that Japan is much more welcoming of westerners. Is this true, or will I experience the same level of vileness from an employer there? |
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JacktheCat

Joined: 08 May 2004
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:29 am Post subject: Re: only in Korea? |
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temporos wrote: |
I've heard from several reliable sources (ugh, now I sound like the US gov't.) that Japan is much more welcoming of westerners. Is this true, or will I experience the same level of vileness from an employer there? |
I wouldn't say Japanese are "more welcoming of Westerners," (they're just as racist as the Koreans, but not as upfront and in your face about it) but they are much more rational and trustworthy employeers. They just expect more professionalism from you. |
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wwidgirl
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:07 am Post subject: contract law principles |
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Here's my situation:
I was offered a position verbally and I accepted verbally.
This COULD be considered a contract but is likely on shakey ground.
I was THEN offered a "formal offer" via email (their words) and I "formally accepted" via email. Within this email were the most essential terms of the contract including: salary, airfare, no housing required, duration contracted for, job requirements.
Without these essential terms, this would probably be considered an agreement to contract at a later date but with the essential terms, this is a binding contract.
Once there has been offer and acceptance, there is no longer a right to rescind.
So technically, I could sue for expectation damages (what I would have gotten had the contract been fulfilled) provided I mitigate damages (so if I could have found a job that pays the same but doesn't provide airfare then I would be entitled to recover the airfare). But I'm not going to because who wants to work where you're not wanted? And it's also a big fat hassle to pursue legal compensation.
So according to Canadian Law I would have a case. This is just me venting. |
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temporos

Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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You're correct. That could be considered a legally binding contract in Canada if and only if you kept that e-mail and did not modify it. You would need all the detailed headers of the message in-tact if you wanted to use it as legal evidence. |
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wwidgirl
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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temporos wrote: |
You're correct. That could be considered a legally binding contract in Canada if and only if you kept that e-mail and did not modify it. You would need all the detailed headers of the message in-tact if you wanted to use it as legal evidence. |
Yeah I printed off copies of all emails and I also saved them onto a disk. |
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Cheonmunka

Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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The written contract terms are what you'll get if there is a dispute and you take it to labor court. Any verbal stuff is wishy wash and any employer will renege. |
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temporos

Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Cheonmunka wrote: |
The written contract terms are what you'll get if there is a dispute and you take it to labor court. |
I took my contract to the Labour Board, and they didn't seem to care what it said... I've learned that contracts in general, written or verbal, are basically meaningless if you're a foreigner. |
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