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Grammar and spelling on the board
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Hank Scorpio



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

william beckerson wrote:
Of all of the things in the world, this is one of the most stupid things to get wound up over.


Agreed somewhat, but it's just one of those things that irks the hell out of me. For better or worse, this is a medium where your writing conveys your thoughts. If you write poorly, people tend to think that you think poorly.

Common Posting Gaffes

The Block-O-Text
No discernible paragraph format to speak of. Granted, there may be a message in there somewhere, but more often than not the reader's eyes glaze over trying to follow the writer's train of thought, without any natural pauses to break things up. Your best bet is to pass over that post and save your sanity.

ALL CAPS
WE ALL KNOW IT. WE ALL HATE IT. NOTHING MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID ABOUT THIS.

Laziness
If you can't be bothered to spell out the words "are", "for", and "you", and think that "r", "4", and "u" are equivalent, you probably shouldn't breed.

Obsessive Cutesiness
Much like pornography, it's hard to describe, but you know it when you see it. Common examples are obsessive usage of "LOL", "ROFLMAO", "OMG", and emoticons. These folks usually can't verbalize what they're thinking, and so rely on crutches of the illiterate.

Okay, rant off. I just wanted to get that off of my chest, and I won't be contributing further to this thread. The grammarian within me is now contented.
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some waygook
Guest




PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:27 am    Post subject: I once misspelled "English" in an English essay at Reply with quote

Way back when, I was in my third year at university, and we had a stuffy professor from London, no less, who was teaching our Romantic prose and poetry class. That was way before I had a computer or any inkling of what a "spell check" could do for my life.
If I made an error, I had to whip out my bottle of white out, cover the offending mistake, wait for it to dry, and then painfully try and reposition the paper so that I could type in the correct spelling.
After a few attempts at this game, I decided it was just easier to rip out the page and start over.
But even after all that, I remember handing in an essay with the word "Engish" in one of the footnotes. I was so tired and frustrated that I decided to let that one slide. The prof never said a word. I got a B on the paper.
What has that got to do with all this ranting about spelling? Well, I thought it might lighten the mood a bit.
Sure, spelling is important, but so is common courtesy. The latter seemed to be somewhat lacking on the old forum.

By the way, I am Canadian and I have gotten more grief for spelling things the Canadian/British way than I care to remember. I once had a coordinator that insisted I spell practice with an "s" practise.
Anyway, if you have any questions, just refur to the site "common errors in English".
Cheers
Some waygook
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Circus Monkey



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: In my coconut tree

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people think that an argument is suddenly weakened if they can point out a couple grammatical errors or typos. There's a reason why it's called a nitpick.

CM
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matko



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. People who are usually losing an arguement often point out, BTW____is spelt____! Stick to the facts of the arguement. Otherwise you are using an old but sad trick. It's called a red herring!
On the other hand, some posters's grammar and spelling are so attrocious that I think they post after hoisting a few too many! I've probably fallen into that category a few times!
By the way, do you prefer to be called Circus or Mr. Monkey?
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scott



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

space

Last edited by scott on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops! I have misspelt misspell! At least you now know that this didatic bitch is human.


No I would not correct William Faulkner. A writer or a poet usually knows the language and its correct usage better than us mere mortals, and uses artistic license with it to convey deeper meaning. To say that Faulkner was a sloppy writer because of his chosen style is like saying that Picasso could not paint because of his chosen style. Picasso was a rigorously trained artist in the classical tradition before he helped reinvent art in the cubist style. I admit to not knowing Faulkner's history enough to vouch for his training, but I would bet that it was good, and rigorous.

I think that what often passes for writing from many allegedly college educated people is a clear example of why a little education is a dangerous thing.

By the way, this is a pet peeve of mine because I have taught at U.S. universities, and I know what that system is sending out into the world as examples of our education system. We currently have a Yale educated leader who is a perfect example of what I am talking about. As soon as his words are not scripted and rehearsed, he falls into incomprehensibly "casual" speech. The problem is not so much the casualness, but the incomprehensibleness of it, and the sense of reckless disregard that it displays.
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Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scott wrote:
sorry if i offended you. i don't check my spelling on these boards. I am of the belief that the ideas i express in my writing are more important than the spelling itslef. do you correct william faulkner's the sound and the fury when you read it too???

In my opinion, why should I be bothered to read and learn what a person's opinion is if they can't be bothered to at least make an effort to present themselves as intelligent.

If the message looks like it was typed by a retarded monkey, it reflects on the intelligence of the writer and discounts whatever message they may be trying to convey across.

Are my messages perfect? No. I don't sit back and re-read them three times to ensure they are perfect. I make mistakes, but you can safely assume I'm a bright individual thus my opinion is that of a bright individual and worthy of consideration, be it that you may agree or disagree.

If I typed "me school din pay my sevrince selery and din pay four me flight home", quite frankly no one is going to know that I graduated from Yale with a 4.0 gradepoint average (well, assuming I did, which I did not), and that the message was so horribly done because I was drunk on soju. All we can conclude of a typist that types like a retarded monkey is that they are a retarded monkey, and we don't care about what retarded monkeys think because they are retarded and have no opinion.

Opposite end, if a person can post a message cleanly, clearly, and without issue we can at least assume the person is rationally intelligent, thus we don't feel as though we are completely waisting our time in listening to their opinion. We may not agree on certain issues, but at least we can present our differing opinions with clear understandings as to why we feel the way we do.

Lastly, I hate people who post giant messages as one giant paragraph. If the person can't be bothered to use paragraphs, I have no choice but to conclude they are a retarded monkey and that their opinion that they are trying to convey across in the message is that of a retarded monkey, thus I care not for their opinion.

So basically if comes down to that if anyone wants anyone else to actually care and consider what they are trying to say, post their messages with a bit of care.

Again: No one cares what a retarded monkey thinks, and typing like a retarded monkey will mean we will view the person as being a retarded monkey and disregard their opinion.
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Circus Monkey



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: In my coconut tree

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matko,

Just call me by my handle.

Captain Obvious 2.0,

You seem to have a hatred towards "retarded monkeys". Did one beat you up when you were a kid? Very Happy

Quote:
I make mistakes, but you can safely assume I'm a bright individual thus my opinion is that of a bright individual and worthy of consideration, be it that you may agree or disagree. - Captain Obvious 2.0


That is sigworthy, considering your posts on the other forum! Did you sprain your hand while patting yourself on the back?

CM
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Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Circus Monkey wrote:

That is sigworthy, considering your posts on the other forum! Did you sprain your hand while patting yourself on the back?

CM

Would appear I forgot to include "...with my opinion" at the end of the sentence.
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scott



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:24 pm    Post subject: empty Reply with quote

space

Last edited by scott on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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agent86



Joined: 19 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What many people (on this forum, at least) don't seem to realize is that grammatical/spelling mistakes deflate your credibility. It's one of the most basic things you learn about rhetoric. I think it's hilarious when someone is trying to put across a passionate argument using misspelled words and poor grammar. It's like listening to a drunk, and we all know how credible they are.

Cheers . . . Wink Embarassed Laughing Rolling Eyes
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jaderedux



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm? Interesting topic. One of the greatest writers of all time, in my lowly opinion, was Mark Twain. I suggest you look at his books. Especially Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn. Both these books are filled with slang and regional language. Mispellings abound because of it. So he is not credible because his books are written in this manner?

Second, I often use ROLF and IMHO and many others...well....because I do, and it saves time. Also, lets not be such snobs that we don't see language as ever changing. Remember Scuba isn't really a word either neither is fax or DOS for that matter of fact. Language is liquid. The language of computer jargon will be old hat soon. ROLF may just mean funny in 5 years and IMHO may be on the pen of every stodgy old column writer for the Washington Post.

The important thing is the message. Henry Miller's works are filled with imperfect grammar. Anais Nin undoubtably one of the great diariast of all time, did not edit for grammar. Does this make their writing less valuable? I don't think so. None of us here are perfect. We are teachers yes, but even teachers need to relax and write perhaps as they speak.

I find the different styles of writing interesting, amusing, funny, infuriating, annoying, refreshing and a multiple combinations of the above. But honestly I don't care about spelling or grammar. I care about the message. Again, in a professional situation it is different but here everyone should feel relaxed enough to "write" in a way that suits the message.

Thanks, I feel better now.

Jade
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scott



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:23 pm    Post subject: empty Reply with quote

space

Last edited by scott on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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william beckerson
Guest




PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
. A writer or a poet usually knows the language and its correct usage better than us mere mortals, and uses artistic license with it to convey deeper meaning.


I couldnt disagree more. We artists are the laziest humans on earth but since we can do things the rest of you cant do, it's easier for us to snow you into thinking it's our style.

Quote:
All we can conclude of a typist that types like a retarded monkey is that they are a retarded monkey, and we don't care about what retarded monkeys think because they are retarded and have no opinion.


Then again, retarded monkeys tend to be pretty open and honest about their retardedness. The prettier the words, the deeper the bullshite. And everyone is allowed to have an opinion, especially the retarded monkeys because they're the only ones who can get the Yale grads to remove their fingers from each others arses.
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matko



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain obvious wrote
Quote:
No one cares what a retarded monkey thinks

I guess I have to start calling you Captain retarded monkey then!
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