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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Koreans think deeply too. It's just not always easy for foreigners to recognise it. It doesn't help if one doesn't have close relationships with Korean friends. Remember, because of the language barrier, and cultural differences relationships between foreigners and Koreans (friendships) often seem superficial. Once you experience a very close friendship with a Korean (it takes a lot of time, and effort on your part) you might be able to see more depth. |
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JongnoGuru

Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| You will be assimilated – resistance is futile. |
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VanIslander

Joined: 18 Aug 2003 Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| You will be assimilated – resistance is futile. |
My time in Korea, seeing so many differences (local life plus expats from other countries), has made me aware of HOW VERY assimilated is the thinking in Canada and America. Groupthink happens everywhere, no less back home, I contend. MORE SO in some ways. When I have more time I'll explain if you'd like. I'm sure others have come to see the so-called "liberated western mind" is itself an inculcation of conformity, and many values are beyond question there that is just plain silly if we tried to follow here in Korea. |
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JongnoGuru

Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| You will be assimilated – resistance is futile. |
My time in Korea, seeing so many differences (local life plus expats from other countries), has made me aware of HOW VERY assimilated is the thinking in Canada and America. Groupthink happens everywhere, no less back home, I contend. MORE SO in some ways. When I have more time I'll explain if you'd like. |
Really? More groupthink back home, is there? I wouldn't really know, not having visited or met everyone from the Maritimes to the Pacific, nor having lived amongst the Blue Staters or the Red Staters, so I'll have to take your word for it. I've never assumed that the whole of North America was the world's biggest basket of eclectics and iconoclasts, each running around doing his or her own thang in his or her own time, not by any means.
But my time in Korea has made me aware of what it's like to live in a socially conservative and racially/culturally homogeneous society (back off, nitpickers -- you know what I mean) that's suddenly having to grapple with a multiplication of views, ideas, options and possibilities. It's often what's made living here so interesting. Never a dull moment.
Perhaps I should have used inverted commas in my previous post to indicate more clearly that it's not my personal view of the situation -- just parroting the old cyborg threat as a carry-on from Derrek's post. |
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Lunar Groove Gardener
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: 1987 Subaru
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Why I only wish I had bek-won for every Gayageum wielding, Sadomasochistic Korean friend...but that's another thread, or tether.
Really though, of the students, I think many here observe the difficulty with free-flowing creative thought...and what we've been taught of it we can surely aim to pass along, here and elsewheres, in our classes and attitudes. Of music and art types that I have gotten to know, just like home...some are practicing Lynard Skynard in their basements (and feeling free..) while others are writing atrocious blather and skewering it in dissonance. Some are training in droves at the paint like Picasso by the book academy, while others throw the book away and throw up on the canvas.
Amidst all the shades of grey and antithetical, aesthetic intellectual self abuse, there are people dancing with magic in them. Sometimes it is throught ascetic adherence to traditional means and form, meditation and
expressiveness. Our luck that they revere this tie to the ancients. Life well examined indeed. Some are pushing the envelope of materials and ideas, examining and questioning the possibilities with a free and open palette. You don't have to look hard to find these aspects of heart felt inquiry, and as elsewhere, you'll find evidence of their counterparts in equal measure. Korea is full of these things, but YOU must look. And when you don't see , it may be that you are blinded in that instant, and not everyone else. At that point I paint a funny face on a home-made kite, and fly it high above the pig-parts, rotting cabbage, and six-pack a day bus fume habit. |
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coolsage
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Lunar Groove Gardener wrote: |
Why I only wish I had bek-won for every Gayageum wielding, Sadomasochistic Korean friend...but that's another thread, or tether.
Really though, of the students, I think many here observe the difficulty with free-flowing creative thought...and what we've been taught of it we can surely aim to pass along, here and elsewheres, in our classes and attitudes. Of music and art types that I have gotten to know, just like home...some are practicing Lynard Skynard in their basements (and feeling free..) while others are writing atrocious blather and skewering it in dissonance. Some are training in droves at the paint like Picasso by the book academy, while others throw the book away and throw up on the canvas.
Amidst all the shades of grey and antithetical, aesthetic intellectual self abuse, there are people dancing with magic in them. Sometimes it is throught ascetic adherence to traditional means and form, meditation and
expressiveness. Our luck that they revere this tie to the ancients. Life well examined indeed. Some are pushing the envelope of materials and ideas, examining and questioning the possibilities with a free and open palette. You don't have to look hard to find these aspects of heart felt inquiry, and as elsewhere, you'll find evidence of their counterparts in equal measure. Korea is full of these things, but YOU must look. And when you don't see , it may be that you are blinded in that instant, and not everyone else. At that point I paint a funny face on a home-made kite, and fly it high above the pig-parts, rotting cabbage, and six-pack a day bus fume habit. |
Well put. Assuming that slice of insight was yours alone, how do you account for the lack of existential angst in this land? Perhaps that's not such a bad thing; there is no self-consciousness here in the western sense, because there is no 'self' in the western sense. One here is part of the collective, not an individual. People here leap out of buildings not because they lack the will to live but because they perceive that they have done a disservice to others, whether it be scoring low on an exam, or losing a promotion or the job. Now a westerner will hurl himself off a bridge simply because he doesn't like himself anymore .That's a significant difference between western and eastern thinkng. |
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coolsage
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| You are correct, sir. There is magic to be found in this land, though it's necessary to dig deeper, to get beyond the imitative and superficial pop culture. I sometimes seem to be preoccupied with where my next supply of cheese will come from, or, now that Camp Page has shut down, when I'll ever view US network TV again. (Hey, life is tough up here in the hinterlands.) Cheers. |
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wild sphere

Joined: 11 Dec 2004 Location: i might as well be on mars 'cause that's how far away i feel from you.
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:57 am Post subject: |
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KOREA! i thought this was Japan!
that's why nobody will talk to me, goddam it!  |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Yap
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I dont see any lack of introspection or philosophical pondering among the Korean adults I interact with regularly.
Educated Koreans are well-read across a spectrum of western thinkers, from Plato onwards, as well as eastern classics. Better-read, I'd venture, than some of the posters on this thread.
In recent months we've had classroom discussions about the ideas of Krishnamurti, Camus, & Hesse (among others). Hesse is particularly popular in Korea -- a museum recently opened (sorry, forget which city) featuring the world's largest collection of his manuscripts & memorabilia. Last weekend our local culture center held a lecture by a noted expert on the I Ching (�ֿ�) & other old texts & the auditorium was full.
The propensity of many Koreans to investigate Christian doctrine I also interpret as a search for meaning in life (despite my own misgivings).
No lack of soul-searching here I'd say. Koreans are grounded in Confucianism but are increasingly dissatisfied with it. Bring up the notions of a purposeful life, predestination, eschatology, etc, & you'll find a lot of Koreans have given these questions a lot of thought. |
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Lunar Groove Gardener
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: 1987 Subaru
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Daily life is a demanding , sometimes dastardly business. Back here in the U.S. as well as afield in foreign lands. There is plentiful cause to question the presence of ardent self-examination on either shore. I do recall the reasons why I was so glad to leave Korea 2 months ago, and remembered while there how little I agreed with many aspects of the philosophical sacrifice which has become the"American Dream". Nonetheless I find the proof in the individuals, the exceptions to the norm, in both places. The hope and illumination transcends the buttoned-up bottom liners in any society, or so I choose to see it. Necessity, inertia, and petty fears can keep my efforts firmly glued to the inane tasks of self-preservation. Like an ace in a pair of twos, the cards urge us on, but we alone choose what and when to bet. I found the Seoul Theater for the Traditional Performing Arts and the art museums thereabouts, as well as the surrounding hills to be extraordinary, and inspiring. (Nambu Bus Terminal) There are collective exhibits and concerts that showcase untold numbers of works by Korean artists, as well as international exhibits. They will also help you learn how to play trad. K-musical instruments, rhythms etc. And when you hear Korean trad. instrumentation fused in more modern contexts it's a fun, dynamic mix! When I found these and other places I relinquished my suppositions and found that missing component. One which had somehow eluded me for months amidst marauding herds of pin-striped, soju infected adjoshis hawking phlegm and flaying their Seoul.  |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| You will be assimilated – resistance is futile. |
My time in Korea, seeing so many differences (local life plus expats from other countries), has made me aware of HOW VERY assimilated is the thinking in Canada and America. Groupthink happens everywhere, no less back home, I contend. MORE SO in some ways. When I have more time I'll explain if you'd like. I'm sure others have come to see the so-called "liberated western mind" is itself an inculcation of conformity, and many values are beyond question there that is just plain silly if we tried to follow here in Korea. |
I agree that "groupthink" happens everywhere (including my own country). However, stating that it is more prevalent in North America than in South Korea is an extraordinary claim. Perhaps you should explain it when you have the time. |
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peppermint

Joined: 13 May 2003 Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: |
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There's a certain segment of society that could be called "sheep" in every culture.. They're not bad people, juat absorbed in the day to day minuitae of life. In the west they often live in the suburbs and send the kids to soccer practice. Here they live in apartment complexes and send the kids to English Hagwons.
I'd suspect that group seems over represented here because they're the ones we come into contact with the most. |
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coolsage
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
There's a certain segment of society that could be called "sheep" in every culture.. They're not bad people, juat absorbed in the day to day minuitae of life. In the west they often live in the suburbs and send the kids to soccer practice. Here they live in apartment complexes and send the kids to English Hagwons.
I'd suspect that group seems over represented here because they're the ones we come into contact with the most. |
A point well-taken. Our contact groups are largely limited to those who we teach each day. And while Schwa is gifted with students who can discuss the works of Hermann Hesse, most of us are dealing with people who can barely wash themselves. |
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JongnoGuru

Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| coolsage wrote: |
| peppermint wrote: |
There's a certain segment of society that could be called "sheep" in every culture.. They're not bad people, juat absorbed in the day to day minuitae of life. In the west they often live in the suburbs and send the kids to soccer practice. Here they live in apartment complexes and send the kids to English Hagwons.
I'd suspect that group seems over represented here because they're the ones we come into contact with the most. |
A point well-taken. Our contact groups are largely limited to those who we teach each day. And while Schwa is gifted with students who can discuss the works of Hermann Hesse, most of us are dealing with people who can barely wash themselves. |
Ah, I see you work with the creme de la creme of Korea's elite public sector yourself, Coolsage! So, whereabouts are you? The Central Government Complex here in Seoul, or the one down in Gwacheon?
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Location: Kyungju
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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The sheep segment of Korea's population is bigger than the equivalent in every other country on this planet
On a similar note: Cho Se Yon that columnist in the Korean Herald quoted someone as saying "that Korea is a like a nation of lemmings"
They embrace a fad, a cause or what someone sees as important in mass, and sometimes they seem to do it just because everybody else is doing it. They embraced foreigeners during the world cup, they hated foreigeners when the two girls were unfortunately killed in an accident, they all aquired a renewed hatred for Japan when it seemed appropriate, and so on.
You could say that their behaviour comes from a deep sense of insecurity. If they could let the past go and and not harp on it so much they might become a nation that's 3 generations off the farm instead of the one generation off the farm that it is. |
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