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Merlyn
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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"I don't like Africa, because I don't like the colour of their skin." The other students roared with laughter...
I didn't interrupt the game at that point...but I would like to teach them at some other time, that such attitudes are not acceptable. Maybe this behaviour is common or acceptable among other Koreans, but this is something that they need to learn about, and no one else will likely ever teach them that it is wrong. |
Is it unacceptable to say I don't like a painting because I don't like the color orange or green that was used? No, of course not. But for you and a lot of the people on this board it is racist and unacceptable to say I don't like dark color skin. It is there own choice what color skin they prefer. Some people like white color skin, some people like tanned skin, they're not being racist for stating which color they prefer. It is not like they said I hate black people because I think they are inferior, for whatever reason. And even if they gave a reason, it would not necessarily be incorrect just because they gave you one anyways. You would have to show them that there reason was incorrect, that all people are in fact equal and should be respected. You handled this situation wrong by over reacting and you didn't even know how to fix it anyways.
And in response to who ever thought it was smart to correct the student that Americans were no fatter than Koreans, I don't know how long you've been in Korea, but there are a lot more over weight people in America, so yes, in fact, Americans are, for the most part, quite a bit fatter. Just looking at most of the English teachers here should have taught you that much, or perhaps, you didn't want to face the facts of your own reflection, but if I'm wrong on that part, my apologies, just speculating. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
Why are we teaching these people English?
The cynical (and perhaps correct) opinion is so they can pass exams and get good jobs in Korea.
This is not the ideal reason however.
The best reason to teach English is to facilitate communication between Koreans and other nationalities. If you take this onboard then you have to correct Koreans on their racism. Not just Koreans though. Anyone!!
You can teach Koreans to speak English beautifully but if they then go and make a racist comment in foreign company then all your work is undone.
Linguistics is not our only duty here. |
OK I like this reply. But why are we teaching them English? Most will not ever have foreign friends. Few will travel much. Really, we are preparing most of them for that test 5 -10 years hence.
And I will bet anyone Korea may change outwardly, but not inwardly, in the next 10-20 years. |
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redbird
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| jajdude wrote: |
And I will bet anyone Korea may change outwardly, but not inwardly, in the next 10-20 years. |
Hey, that's a start.
I'm not going to speak for other countries, but in the U.S. we mostly pretend that everyone is equal. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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they're not being racist for stating which color they prefer. It is not like they said I hate black people because I think they are inferior, for whatever reason. [/quote]
Well most Koreans I know do look down on Africa. And most seem afraid of blacks. The kids learn this by age 8.
Yes, indeed, Korea is a very racist nation. |
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Merlyn
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Well most Koreans I know do look down on Africa. And most seem afraid of blacks. The kids learn this by age 8.
Yes, indeed, Korea is a very racist nation. |
Well, it isn't true from the OP. Africa doesn't have a whole lot of success stories and certainly doesn't have a whole lot of model countries. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| steroidmaximus wrote: |
gypsyfish bleated:
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If you're teaching a culture class, there is an argument for discussing these issues, but the minute you start trying to 'educate the natives' on how they are wrong, I think you've stepped over the line.
If a student uses hurtful or inappropriate language, they should be told that it can have serious consequences if they use it in other countries (I've even told students I find it personally offensive and they aren't to use it in my class), but I think you're fooling yourself if you think that you are going to change what mom and dad have taught them.
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sounds like you're waffling here. I can understand the fine distinction you're making about how to approach the subject of inappropriate behaviour with your students, but the end result is the same.
Like I stated before, our job is not just to teach about grammar, syntax, conversation. We are modern missionaries of a sort, disseminating western hegemony in our wake: we are the forerunners of the global revolution. You're fooling yourself any other way; students watch how you act, the things you do, what you wear, what you say about anything, and mimic to varying degrees. It's your job to propogate the right image, to act appropriately, and to discuss openly. It's not a question of simply correcting, but offering another point of view they wouldn't have considered otherwise. That's a teacher. |
"Bleated?" "Waffled?"
Apologies. You're right. I shouldn't have said I think. That is a bit waffling. I should have just said ... but the minute you start trying to 'educate the natives' on how they are wrong, you've stepped over the line.
You be the modern missionary, teaching students your vision of the way it should be.
I'll continue to teach English. Baaaah!  |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| The people promoting this cause have an ethics problem. You were hired to teach English, not social studies. Thats gross contract violation. I'm not surprised by this. The character of so many of these folks is lacking. Make an extreme accusation as a distraction and then proceed to do whatever you want regqardless of the contract stipulations. The Koreans outlook is distateful but sans any validity via convictions, international comdenation beyond gossip and any valid human rights violation your efforts are simply self flagellation at best and civil law violations at worse. If you want to protest, make a sign, take a Saturday and protest down at COEX. |
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Koreabound2004
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I was hired as part of a Cultural Program in Korea....so my job as per my contract is to educate students about not only the English language, but about foreign cultures, and Western perspectives. I am not here to force my opinions on anyone, but rather to expose them to different ways of thinking, and to learn more about the world.
To Merlyn: How did I overreact, if you say that I didn't even know how to fix it? 
I was shocked initially, and decided to discuss it with the class later, after I had given myself some time to think about an appropriate response. I am not going to let such comments(which I believe are racist, or racially motivated) be voiced in my presence. I take offense to them, and I want the students to know that I, as a Westerner am offended by such comments.
I met with that class again yesterday, and brought the issue up, without centering out the student who made the remarks, and I simply told them that if they were to travel, work or study abroad...they will definitely meet people from all walks of life, and that if they want to be accepted by those people and make friends abroad that they should not express such views or opinions publicly. I said you are most certainly entitled to hold your own thoughts and beliefs, it is your mind, I am not telling you what to think or believe, but I just want to warn you that if you go abroad, it may not be well received. I asked them not to say such things in MY class again. I also told them how I am treated as a foreigner in a small town, and how it makes me feel. They indeed seemed to feel sorry. |
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Merlyn
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| How did I overreact, if you say that I didn't even know how to fix it? |
You overreacted because there is nothing racist about someones preference of skin color. And you didn't know how to fix it because it doesn't sound like you did a whole lot to show how people were basically equal. Then you should have done an experiment to try to get them to feel for their fellow human beings, out of compassion and love, not just because you think it is wrong to be racist. |
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steroidmaximus
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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If you're teaching a culture class, there is an argument for discussing these issues, but the minute you start trying to 'educate the natives' on how they are wrong, I think you've stepped over the line.
If a student uses hurtful or inappropriate language, they should be told that it can have serious consequences if they use it in other countries (I've even told students I find it personally offensive and they aren't to use it in my class), but I think you're fooling yourself if you think that you are going to change what mom and dad have taught them.
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". . .trying to educate the natives on how they are wrong, you step over the line"
then
". . . they should be told that it can have serious consequences. . ."
again, you're contradicting yourself. Both approaches are about calling a student on inappropriate behaviour; the difference is simply in approach: the first way sounds more condescending, while the second tries to be more politically correct. The end result is the same, save some students might not get as upset about being told off.
Essentially, we agree: letting someone know what to expect when interacting with a person from another culture in the language they are studying is part of the job. Anyone who tries to avoid this aspect of being a teacher is just lazy and avoiding their responsibilities, and is hence not really a teacher. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, I tell them all about quotas, affirmative action, and other racist things.
They are usually very surprised. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jajdude wrote: |
| Well most Koreans I know do look down on Africa. |
Who doesn't look down on Africa? When people think Africa, "trainwreck" is a common theme.
Not to damn the people entirely, but as an overall the place has a lot of serious issues that need addressing. |
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matthewwoodford
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Location, location, location.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| gypsyfish wrote: |
| steroidmaximus wrote: |
gypsyfish bleated:
| Quote: |
If you're teaching a culture class, there is an argument for discussing these issues, but the minute you start trying to 'educate the natives' on how they are wrong, I think you've stepped over the line.
If a student uses hurtful or inappropriate language, they should be told that it can have serious consequences if they use it in other countries (I've even told students I find it personally offensive and they aren't to use it in my class), but I think you're fooling yourself if you think that you are going to change what mom and dad have taught them.
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sounds like you're waffling here. I can understand the fine distinction you're making about how to approach the subject of inappropriate behaviour with your students, but the end result is the same.
Like I stated before, our job is not just to teach about grammar, syntax, conversation. We are modern missionaries of a sort, disseminating western hegemony in our wake: we are the forerunners of the global revolution. You're fooling yourself any other way; students watch how you act, the things you do, what you wear, what you say about anything, and mimic to varying degrees. It's your job to propogate the right image, to act appropriately, and to discuss openly. It's not a question of simply correcting, but offering another point of view they wouldn't have considered otherwise. That's a teacher. |
"Bleated?" "Waffled?"
Apologies. You're right. I shouldn't have said I think. That is a bit waffling. I should have just said ... but the minute you start trying to 'educate the natives' on how they are wrong, you've stepped over the line.
You be the modern missionary, teaching students your vision of the way it should be.
I'll continue to teach English. Baaaah! |
Actually looks to me like steroidmaximus is joking, otherwise I'd certainly agree with gypsyfish. Not that you can completely disassociate a language from its culture, but you can try to teach language in its western cultural context without judging students' culture. Given that we mostly don't know a lot about other cultures, western assumptions inevitably creep into our language teaching anyway.
However, I think there's a point where your role as a teacher is superseded by your principles as a human being. Understanding the culture means understanding that racist remarks here don't necessarily signal the same thing as the same remarks from students back home - so you have to probe - but, regardless, to ignore it is to approve it. You don't necessarily have to turn your classroom into some kind of reeducation camp, but you should at least signal somehow your disapproval.
I think it's easy to forget your morals when doing any job, just so that you fit in with the environment. Lieing to customers becomes routine, accepting racism becomes routine, it's easier so you do it without even thinking about it, unless or until you realise there are more important things than some stupid job....And I'm not talking about finding Jesus, honest.  |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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anyone work with a series called Connect with English?
I did a class on 'racism' yesterday with this material. |
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Ody
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you educate your students about racism? |
not really. though i try to set an example of being open-minded and non-judgmental.
EDIT: added quote |
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