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dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: |
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What's wrong with it is that if he's addressing Koreans resident overseas who are citizens of other nations, then they shouldn't be putting Korea's interests first, necessarily. The fact that you (and many Koreans) don't grasp this is what makes me wish we in North America did not hand out naturalization certificates like crackerjack toys. |
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indiercj

Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:28 am Post subject: |
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dogbert wrote: |
What's wrong with it is that if he's addressing Koreans resident overseas who are citizens of other nations, then they shouldn't be putting Korea's interests first, necessarily. The fact that you (and many Koreans) don't grasp this is what makes me wish we in North America did not hand out naturalization certificates like crackerjack toys. |
Yes, he was addressing a Kyopo audience BUT he was talking about domestic politics. He was not talking about what overseas Koreans should do but what difficulties he is facing right now with ultra pro-american Koreans in Korea. What's wrong with that? |
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thorin

Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
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indiercj wrote: |
dogbert wrote: |
What's wrong with it is that if he's addressing Koreans resident overseas who are citizens of other nations, then they shouldn't be putting Korea's interests first, necessarily. The fact that you (and many Koreans) don't grasp this is what makes me wish we in North America did not hand out naturalization certificates like crackerjack toys. |
Yes, he was addressing a Kyopo audience BUT he was talking about domestic politics. He was not talking about what overseas Koreans should do but what difficulties he is facing right now with ultra pro-american Koreans in Korea. What's wrong with that? |
Yeah, I can hardly walk down the street without one of these ultra pro-American crazies getting in my face. C'mon, what he's obviously doing is pandering to anti-American Korean ultra-nationalists (and I suspect his membership card is in the mail).
Last edited by thorin on Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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indiercj

Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
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For those who can read Korean, here is Rho's whole speech. Judge for yourself. |
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JongnoGuru

Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:36 am Post subject: |
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This president is delusional if he defines his enemies simply as pro-Americans. Surely his "enemies", and this country's problems, are far more varied than that. |
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dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:38 am Post subject: |
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indiercj wrote: |
Hmm.. What's wrong with his "�ѱ����̸� �ѱ��δ�� �����ؾ��Ѵ�" remark? What he meant is that every Koreans should put Korea's interest first. Also he was concerned about those who believe we should do anything the US want us to. |
Thank you for the link of President Roh's speech.
What you write above reminds me of Cho Se-hyeon writing in his column from time to time the angry correspondence he gets from some Korean readers complaining that he "doesn't think like a Korean".
Who is President Roh or any Korean person to decide what absolutely is putting Korea's interests first? Maybe to some, putting Korea's interests first is unconditional union with the DPRK. Maybe to others, it's trying to appease China. To others, it might be a strict anti-Japan policy.
Who gets to decide what is "hankookin-dapgeh"? |
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indiercj

Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:39 am Post subject: |
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thorin wrote: |
indiercj wrote: |
dogbert wrote: |
What's wrong with it is that if he's addressing Koreans resident overseas who are citizens of other nations, then they shouldn't be putting Korea's interests first, necessarily. The fact that you (and many Koreans) don't grasp this is what makes me wish we in North America did not hand out naturalization certificates like crackerjack toys. |
Yes, he was addressing a Kyopo audience BUT he was talking about domestic politics. He was not talking about what overseas Koreans should do but what difficulties he is facing right now with ultra pro-american Koreans in Korea. What's wrong with that? |
Yeah, I can hardly walk down the street without one of these ultra pro-American crazies getting in my face. C'mon, what he's obviously doing is pandering to anti-American Korean ultra-nationalists (and I suspect his membership card is in the mail). |
Sorry to dissapoint you, but Roh was officially denied of his membership the moment he decided to sent troops to Iraq. Please visit any anti-American lefties' board. It isn't too hard to realize how much they hate him. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Well I wish he had never sent any troops to Iraq because then that would have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
How do you think the US would have reacted if he had refused to send soldiers?
He never had a choice because Korea has a good thing going - and Korea has zero cards to play w/ the US.
Not like the US gets anything out of the relationship. |
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dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again, indiercj. I've read the quotes of Roh and it does clear some things up, while leaving some things unclear (to me). What are your thoughts?
Roh said, "�ѱ������ε� �̱�������� �� ģ������ �������� ���� ����ϴ� ����� ���� ���������� �����", which I read as "They [the people I'm talking about] are Korean citizens, but are more like Americans than Americans themselves and they are the ones that are most worrisome and difficult. There, President Roh specifically speaks of Korean citizens (that is, not ethnic Koreans in general). Actually, I agree with him, because I have the same concern in regard to U.S. citizens who actually seem to be more Korean than Korean citizens in their thinking.
But Roh goes on to say, "�ѱ�����̸� �ѱ������� �����ϰ� �Ǵ��ؾ� �Ѵ�", which means, "If you are Korean, you must think and judge like a Korean". Now in that quote, President Roh does not say "Korean citizen", but merely "Korean". Could that be purposeful, or is Roh merely as careless in his speech as ol' George W.? In any event, I think my interpretation that he's speaking of ethnic Koreans everywhere is fair. |
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indiercj

Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:59 am Post subject: |
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dogbert wrote: |
Thanks again, indiercj. I've read the quotes of Roh and it does clear some things up, while leaving some things unclear (to me). What are your thoughts?
Roh said, "�ѱ������ε� �̱�������� �� ģ������ �������� ���� ����ϴ� ����� ���� ���������� �����", which I read as "They [the people I'm talking about] are Korean citizens, but are more like Americans than Americans themselves and they are the ones that are most worrisome and difficult. There, President Roh specifically speaks of Korean citizens (that is, not ethnic Koreans in general). Actually, I agree with him, because I have the same concern in regard to U.S. citizens who actually seem to be more Korean than Korean citizens in their thinking.
But Roh goes on to say, "�ѱ�����̸� �ѱ������� �����ϰ� �Ǵ��ؾ� �Ѵ�", which means, "If you are Korean, you must think and judge like a Korean". Now in that quote, President Roh does not say "Korean citizen", but merely "Korean". Could that be purposeful, or is Roh merely as careless in his speech as ol' George W.? In any event, I think my interpretation that he's speaking of ethnic Koreans everywhere is fair. |
You think too much dogbert.
And I don't think many Koreans would interpret the way you do. |
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dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:02 am Post subject: |
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OK, fair enough. As you are a native speaker and an educated man, I have to accept your reading of it.
On the other hand, I still find it an odd thing for the president to feel he has to express, especially singling out Koreans who supposedly are are more like Americans than Americans themselves (the next such Korean I meet will be the first), rather than say, Koreans who think like Chinese, or Koreans who think like Japanese.
And I still maintain, vid my comments regarding Cho Se-hyun's mail, that there is a definite set way of thinking in regard to many issues that the majority of Koreans will agree is the accepted "Korean way of thinking" and that other Koreans cross that at their own risk. |
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thorin

Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:20 am Post subject: |
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indiercj wrote: |
thorin wrote: |
indiercj wrote: |
dogbert wrote: |
What's wrong with it is that if he's addressing Koreans resident overseas who are citizens of other nations, then they shouldn't be putting Korea's interests first, necessarily. The fact that you (and many Koreans) don't grasp this is what makes me wish we in North America did not hand out naturalization certificates like crackerjack toys. |
Yes, he was addressing a Kyopo audience BUT he was talking about domestic politics. He was not talking about what overseas Koreans should do but what difficulties he is facing right now with ultra pro-american Koreans in Korea. What's wrong with that? |
Yeah, I can hardly walk down the street without one of these ultra pro-American crazies getting in my face. C'mon, what he's obviously doing is pandering to anti-American Korean ultra-nationalists (and I suspect his membership card is in the mail). |
Sorry to dissapoint you, but Roh was officially denied of his membership the moment he decided to sent troops to Iraq. Please visit any anti-American lefties' board. It isn't too hard to realize how much they hate him. |
But they'll excuse him for that come election day because really, it was the Americans who made him do it. |
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thorin

Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:53 am Post subject: |
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dogbert wrote: |
OK, fair enough. As you are a native speaker and an educated man, I have to accept your reading of it.
On the other hand, I still find it an odd thing for the president to feel he has to express, especially singling out Koreans who supposedly are are more like Americans than Americans themselves (the next such Korean I meet will be the first), rather than say, Koreans who think like Chinese, or Koreans who think like Japanese.
And I still maintain, vid my comments regarding Cho Se-hyun's mail, that there is a definite set way of thinking in regard to many issues that the majority of Koreans will agree is the accepted "Korean way of thinking" and that other Koreans cross that at their own risk. |
I haven't met any of these Koreans who think more like Americans than Americans themselves either. I'm sure whomever translated his remarks is fluent and educated too and they sure made it sound like he said anyone who doesn't think just like him is un-Korean. |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Location: take a wild guess
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Roh is just using antiamerican rhetoric to discredit his oppenents.
Personally I don't see thatbending over and offering to take it up the tail pipe from N. Korea is in S. korea's interest. |
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funplanet

Joined: 20 Jun 2003 Location: The new Bucheon!
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:19 am Post subject: |
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I am sure most Koreans are interested in putting Korea's interests first but are not too happy with the moron who is in office....they are free to express their own opinion and if they believe the Sunshine Policy is idiotic and the American approach more realistic...then who is to judge them? they should think like Koreans? yeah, WTF? thinking outside the box is definately not Korean so should they be stuck in the 18th century?
believe it or not, there are Koreans who support the American approach toward Nk...are they less patriotic? no....are they traitors? no...are they free to express their own opinions without President Dopey telling them how to think? yes... |
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