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captain kirk
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder what's the problem. Nothing stays the same, change is picking up pace, faster than it's ever been. The world is getting smaller. Where there were borders, enclaves (and that created separate races) there is mixing...transformations everywhere you look. Some of them are good, some of the changes are bad. And it's going to get a lot different alot faster in the future than we're probably ready for it to be 'comfortable'. Take a picture and move on, make a photo album. Tell your grandchildren. Who are quicker thinking than you and pause to be polite.
What do you want? |
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Koreabound2004
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like they are afraid that "white" people are losing the power/status(not culture) that they once had....people are mixing...and soon everyone will be non-white....are you afraid???  |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Rock wrote: |
| This has nothing to do with racism but has to do with the death of a culture. |
Perhaps, this may be a little bit harsh, could it not be just the evolution of culture? I found that with my experiences abroad, not only did I learn to look at things differently, but that I became more accepting of certain things. This also came about as I matured and with higher education, so surely you cannot suppose that your culture can die, because, it is always a part of you, is it not?
| Rock wrote: |
| I feel that some of my culture is losing its ground. |
This may be more like it - however, I would hesitate to equate it with losing ground. Rather, I might say that there is often an innate fear of change and that oftentimes one looks to that which is unfamiliar as a way to explain this fear and the reasoning behind that fear. It is much easier to look at the unfamiliar and to blame than to accept that change occurs all around regardless of our actions. That is the chaos that is life - it is changing regardless of our hopes that it will not. Culture has never existed within a vaccuum, there is always an exterior force that affects it, but to see it as being destroyed is just myopic, I would think.
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| Is there no Western culture extending to the suburbs, no culture at all in the 'burbs? Well then, what's the American Dream all about, the idea of raising kids in safe neighborhoods, in crime free enclaves, in more decent schools? What is there to the work ethic, or to standards to live by that places like Catholic schools, and yeah, even those private, offer those kids in the 'burbs? Do you think you'll find this in the inner-cities? Isn't this the life that many immigrants like ourselves see as the best for themselves? |
I would say sure there are cultures existing in the suburbs, mixing and encorporating, borrowing from each other etc. But as you have said, everyone wishes simple things - safety, happiness, etc. Your implication of inner cities being unsafe, is part and partial due, in my opinion, to state induced segregation, which has been shown to be a systematic form of racism.
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| Come on Kirk and Waeguk. You both put your foot in your mouth. The main gist of this post is to imply the ideals of the culture I've been used to are now either dying or defunct, and yes, I feel a lot of what you experience here adds to this demise.. |
Here in, I think lies the main discrepancy in the views of the majority of posters, there are those comfortable with the effects of unfamiliar cultures upon the evolution of personal culture and those who are not. I don't think that racism (at least in this instance) has much of a bearing upon this argument, but rather is something that many use to understand it. If someone is unnaccepting or intolerant of another culture does that neccessarily make them a racist, or are they just that unaccepting and intollerent? |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Koreabound2004 wrote: |
| Sounds like they are afraid that "white" people are losing the power/status(not culture) that they once had....people are mixing...and soon everyone will be non-white....are you afraid??? |
| captain kirk wrote: |
| I wonder what's the problem. Nothing stays the same, change is picking up pace, faster than it's ever been. The world is getting smaller. Where there were borders, enclaves (and that created separate races) there is mixing...transformations everywhere you look. Some of them are good, some of the changes are bad. |
Two exellent points, the world is in constant evolution, and we are also seeing a change in the old system of privelege. The power differential is swinging and this makes people, particularly white people (though not exclusively) afraid/warry/uncomfortable. |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| bignate wrote: |
| Koreabound2004 wrote: |
| Sounds like they are afraid that "white" people are losing the power/status(not culture) that they once had....people are mixing...and soon everyone will be non-white....are you afraid??? |
| captain kirk wrote: |
| I wonder what's the problem. Nothing stays the same, change is picking up pace, faster than it's ever been. The world is getting smaller. Where there were borders, enclaves (and that created separate races) there is mixing...transformations everywhere you look. Some of them are good, some of the changes are bad. |
Two exellent points, the world is in constant evolution, and we are also seeing a change in the old system of privelege. The power differential is swinging and this makes people, particularly white people (though not exclusively) afraid/warry/uncomfortable. |
Im white. it doesnt make me uncomfortable. But Im so happy its making these uptight Wasps uncomfortable. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Rock wrote: |
| I feel that some of my culture is losing its ground. Is there no Western culture extending to the suburbs, no culture at all in the 'burbs? Well then, what's the American Dream all about, the idea of raising kids in safe neighborhoods, in crime free enclaves, in more decent schools? What is there to the work ethic, or to standards to live by that places like Catholic schools, and yeah, even those private, offer those kids in the 'burbs? Do you think you'll find this in the inner-cities? Isn't this the life that many immigrants like ourselves see as the best for themselves? |
What kind of culture are you losing? Many immigrants, particularly Asians, are moving out into the suburbs to pursue that same kind of large house and safety thing. They also work hard and want the best for their kids.
Its the same concept.
If you are referring to your suburb not being that way anymore (or being crime-ridden).. I guess you'd have to specify what suburb of what city that is to get a better sense of what you mean. |
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kangnam mafioso
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: Teheranno
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm having trouble finding your thesis statement. |
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Rock
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Undermining your culture refers to immigration policies and the influx of races into parts of the West, particularly Asian, without second thought to the repercussions.
Many of these have higher educations. About one out of three immigrants are chosen from Korea and hired by US companies because of their educational background/expertise. This is well and fine. About 30,000 immigratns from western China were allowed entry into the US last year(?)
The cultural ideals I've been brought up with, however, were those of the middle class, and that of the middle-working class to some extent. Many of those living in the burbs moved there after WWII, had been either Irish, German, Polish or those from Europe. All this is changing, and that for a rather indifferent, materialistic culture void of some of these middle/working class values.
I just see this as a problem. It's not as if I'm greatly concerned about race though. I see it as a dilemma, however, because the majority of Asians will not consider themselves part and parcel of the white-American-Western mainstream. They've got a highly competitive streak that makes a good majority of them want to prove their superiority, which is, to an extent, undermining the Wesern homogeneity in the West/America.
Of course the states is about 70 % white, so I refer to this as the American mainstream.
Thing is, there's nothing wrong with this. I'm not part of that mainstream anymore. I feel, however, that thinking that Western-white culture is of no value and that you're a racist if you do think so, is letting someone else sleep in your bed.
Last edited by Rock on Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:05 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Rock wrote: |
Undermining your culture refers to immigration policies and the influx of races into parts of the West, particularly Asian, without second thought to the repercussions.
Many of these have higher educations. About one third of US employers hire Koreans because of their educational background/expertise. This is well and fine. About 30,000 immigratns from western China were allowed entry into the US last year(?)
The cultural ideals I've been brought up with, however, were those of the middle class, and that of the middle-working class to some extent. Many of those living in the burbs moved there after WWII, had been either Irish, German, Polish or those from Europe. All this is changing, and that for a rather indifferent, materialistic culture void of some of these middle/working class values.
I just see this as a problem. It's not as if I'm greatly concerned though. I see it as a dilemma, because the majority of Asians will not consider themselves part and parcel of the white-American-Western mainstream. They've got a highly competitive streak that makes a good majority of them want to prove their superiority, which is, to an extent, undermining the Wesern homogeneity in the West/America.
Of course the states is about 70 % white, so I refer to this as the American mainstream.
Thing is, there's nothing wrong with this. I'm not part of that mainstream anymore. I feel, however, that thinking that Western-white culture is of no value and that you're a racist if you do think so, is letting someone else sleep in your bed. |
You make very good points, but as you can see from the reaction your posts have received, it is not at all possible to even begin a debate on immigration policy in the United States any longer. It will be shut down before it starts. |
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Rock
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Koreabound2004 wrote: |
| Sounds like they are afraid that "white" people are losing the power/status(not culture) that they once had....people are mixing...and soon everyone will be non-white....are you afraid??? |
I wouldn't be so afraid of being "non-white" as losing some of the ideals that are quite different from Asian ideals.
This has nothing to do with status or superiority, either. I see it as a fact that there's little identification some of the immigrants wish to relate by, becuase they think white equates with being superior, therefore causing a rift. |
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Rock
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Rock wrote: |
Undermining your culture refers to immigration policies and the influx of races into parts of the West, particularly Asian, without second thought to the repercussions.
Many of these have higher educations. About one third of US employers hire Koreans because of their educational background/expertise. This is well and fine. About 30,000 immigratns from western China were allowed entry into the US last year(?)
The cultural ideals I've been brought up with, however, were those of the middle class, and that of the middle-working class to some extent. Many of those living in the burbs moved there after WWII, had been either Irish, German, Polish or those from Europe. All this is changing, and that for a rather indifferent, materialistic culture void of some of these middle/working class values.
I just see this as a problem. It's not as if I'm greatly concerned though. I see it as a dilemma, because the majority of Asians will not consider themselves part and parcel of the white-American-Western mainstream. They've got a highly competitive streak that makes a good majority of them want to prove their superiority, which is, to an extent, undermining the Wesern homogeneity in the West/America.
Of course the states is about 70 % white, so I refer to this as the American mainstream.
Thing is, there's nothing wrong with this. I'm not part of that mainstream anymore. I feel, however, that thinking that Western-white culture is of no value and that you're a racist if you do think so, is letting someone else sleep in your bed. |
You make very good points, but as you can see from the reaction your posts have received, it is not at all possible to even begin a debate on immigration policy in the United States any longer. It will be shut down before it starts. |
Dogbert, no, I don't "see from the reaction" there's nothing but you trying to foment something instead offering reasonable debates and arguments like most have done here.
shut what down, by the way? The racist remarks some are trying to imply?
Come on, Dogbert, buy yourself a barbie doll. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| Its unfortunate because we need to investigate this matter. |
Interesting. Trouble is investigation of this matter, must have a threshold that dissolves into racism somewhere along the line, and one wonders where that threshold is, and how to define it. I think white people have the right to identify ourselves, just as other races do, it's just that history has shown us that it's a bit of a dangerous road. Innit.
There is a white culture. All the other cultures speak of it "Did you grow up white?" - it's just that we offend ourselves whenever we try to define it. |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| dulouz wrote: |
| Its unfortunate because we need to investigate this matter. |
Interesting. Trouble is investigation of this matter, must have a threshold that dissolves into racism somewhere along the line, and one wonders where that threshold is, and how to define it. I think white people have the right to identify ourselves, just as other races do, it's just that history has shown us that it's a bit of a dangerous road. Innit.
There is a white culture. All the other cultures speak of it "Did you grow up white?" - it's just that we offend ourselves whenever we try to define it. |
There is a white culture? You mean to tell me that an upper-middle class Massachusstets WASP will have the same culture as an Italian in Brooklyn or a Pole in Chicago? How about a German in rural Wisconsin?
What exactly is this White culture and why is it that I doubt we share the same culture despite having the same skin color? |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
I'm sorry but I find it perverse that my racial, ethnic and cultural history is being engineered, planned and managed by a dweeb civil servant in Washington DC. I prefer not to partake in it. |
Which dweeb civil servant is planning your history? How is that possible? |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| dulouz wrote: |
I'm sorry but I find it perverse that my racial, ethnic and cultural history is being engineered, planned and managed by a dweeb civil servant in Washington DC. I prefer not to partake in it. |
Which dweeb civil servant is planning your history? How is that possible? |
Its not. Its not happening and it isn't possible. However certain people with paranoia issues see things that aren't there. |
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