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jazblanc77

Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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peppermint wrote: |
I tend to date guys a little older than me as a general rule, so yeah I would be a little freaked out if a guy I was seeing told me he was a virgin.
I think there's a certain amount of emotional maturity that comes along with sexual experience, and if a guy in his 30s doesn't have that, it's cause for concern. |
I think this exactly where the issue lies. The maturity that comes with sexual intimacy and the issues and responsibilities that arise as a result of being sexually active places a person on a higher level of emotional maturity than someone who has not yet dealt with those pressures.
There was actually a very interesting documentary on the CBC recently (or perhaps CTV), which focused on the issue of forced and voluntary celebacy. As part of the discussion, the documentary showed the dilemma of priests of the fatherhood who choose a life of voluntary celebacy and how they often strugglewith their existence as a sexual being. The name was something to the effect of "Sexual Myths and Secrets". Anyways, through interviews and scientific studies, it showed exactly what I said above about mental maturity and stated that many drop out of the priesthood due to their struggles with celebacy. |
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jazblanc77

Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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lastat06513 wrote: |
Thanks TECO
there are still some girls that would marry for love. It is just that they are even harder to find.
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How does one know what love is if they have never experienced the kind of intimacy and emotional attachment/devotion to a partner that is part of sharing sex with him/her? This is not to mention the trust and responsibility that it all involves. In my opinion, until one knows how to deal with infatuation, love, rejection, heartbreak, dating, as well as the issues of STDs, pregnancy, contraception, foreplay and sexual awkardness, and more, they are not yet experienced enough/ready to be in a successful longterm relationship. Sex is closely linked to all these concepts. In addition, I think that lots of naive notions and misperceptions regarding the expectations of partners towards each other and relationships in general are dispelled once you have gained the life experience that can, usually, only be gained with sexual experience (I'm not talking about promiscuity here, don't get me wrong).
I would argue that until you experience the turmoil of the emotions, responsibilities, and trust issues that come along with sex, you couldn't possibly have an adult understanding of love. |
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TheMrCul

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Korea, finally...
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 12:01 am Post subject: |
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I would argue that until you experience the turmoil of the emotions, responsibilities, and trust issues that come along with sex, you couldn't possibly have an adult understanding of love. |
I'm not getting on the offensive here, but I think that if you don't stick to/dedicate yourself to the other person, including the physical part of your life - if you think that experiences with other people count when it comes to this relationship, the one you're in, then you don't have an adult understanding of love. |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 12:53 am Post subject: |
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jazblanc
Absolutely true!
And....I couldn't agree with you more
Sex is tied hand-in-hand with the way people view relationships these days.
But I feel the major problem lies with the fact that it is done as an "exchange of favors" concept in Korea. Alot of girls here feel that they should share their bodies for the unique opportunity to learn English. Sex is seen here as a "means to an end" in which one person gets something out of it so the other must give in return.
And what bothers me more, once the other person (usually the foreigner) has served their purpose. they are discarded and then that is when the woman starts looking for a real love, most of the time it turns out to be a Korean.
I am not making a racist remark, though it might sound so, I am just peeved that a person would stay in a relationship for one or 2 years for the simple fact they are learning something for free. |
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kermo

Joined: 01 Sep 2004 Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
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jazblanc77 wrote: |
peppermint wrote: |
I tend to date guys a little older than me as a general rule, so yeah I would be a little freaked out if a guy I was seeing told me he was a virgin.
I think there's a certain amount of emotional maturity that comes along with sexual experience, and if a guy in his 30s doesn't have that, it's cause for concern. |
I think this exactly where the issue lies. The maturity that comes with sexual intimacy and the issues and responsibilities that arise as a result of being sexually active places a person on a higher level of emotional maturity than someone who has not yet dealt with those pressures.
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You could also argue that a person who consistently chooses to put their values ahead of their physical desires has a great deal of self-discipline and emotional maturity. That person has probably had to take a lot of grief from others who don't agree, understand (or who just really want to screw them.)
I recognize that sex can be a crucible for all sorts of learning and growth, but so can any traumatic experience, and we don't congratulate the guy who passes out drunk in a frozen field, or gets his hand cut off in a farming accident.
Sex, particularly in the case of teenagers, can become a hobby or an obsession, at the expense of other important aspects of a relationship. It's really a trade-off; I'm not saying that no good can come of having sex outside of marriage, but people who choose to wait are just on a different path, with different challenges. |
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peppermint

Joined: 13 May 2003 Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:14 am Post subject: |
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I understand what you're saying. I know quite a few men who've slept around and still have the emotional maturity of a five year old.
In my experience, the men that I've met who have waited/ are waiting have very idealized notions about romance and more importantly about the women in their lives.. Maybe that's not as connected to the lack of sex as it seems though. |
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agraham

Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Location: Daegu, Korea
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:18 am Post subject: |
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lastat06513 wrote: |
And what bothers me more, once the other person (usually the foreigner) has served their purpose. they are discarded and then that is when the woman starts looking for a real love, most of the time it turns out to be a Korean. |
Ouch! Sounds like personal experience talking. |
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agraham

Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Location: Daegu, Korea
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:31 am Post subject: |
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little mixed girl wrote: |
i am 21 and a virgin.
a number of my friends are also 20+ and virgins.
there's nothing 'weird' about it. |
Gotta disagree. It's a bit wierd. Perhaps not for a 21 year old.. but much older than that and yeah, wierd.
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some of them are probably virgins for religious reasons, others (like me) not for religious reasons. |
If it's for religious reasons, to me that's wierd. Sorry. If it's because you're waiting to meet someone you love, I would say that's a good way to live and not wierd, unless you've made it through your prime dating years never having fallen in love. Slightly wierd.
If it's because of fears of disease and pregnancy, that's pretty rational - but choosing not to live a major part of your life out of a fear of losing it... to me that's a bit wierd.
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really, a relationship is not about sex. |
It's 75% not about sex.
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it's about knowing a person, trusting them, etc etc. |
That's the 75% that's not sex.
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if u only want to have sex, there are plenty of places that will take your $$$. |
Gross!  |
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guangho

Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Most women in China- and from what I see, here- want a) a white face for the prestige factor and b) english lessons. Keep expectations low and you'll be fine. |
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pollyplummer

Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Location: McMinnvillve, Oregon
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:15 am Post subject: choices |
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Very interesting thread! I think we need more perspective. Many of those who wait to have sex for religious reasons do so not because they have a different view of sex itself. Rather, they have a different understanding of eternity and authority. Those who believe that all we have is this life and that we cease to exist when we die, will often choose to do as they please and can see no value in waiting. In their understanding of the world, there is no authority higher than themselves. Therefore, whatever he pleases to do, he will. Those who believe in eternity and an authority higher than themselves who says it's better to wait will attribute more value to the waiting. It's not that they don't want to have sex or that they fear "losing it." They see the world through different eyes. Their understanding of eternity causes them to make decisions that don't seem to make sense to the natural mind, like waiting to have sex. Wisdom is not always gained through experience. Some things are precious and worth waiting for if you live in sight of something or Someone more worthy than your own desires. Then again, if there is nothing of more worth than what you want, you will do what you please and have what you please and live so. Certainly there are people who wish to remain virgins for non-religious reasons, and I don't mean to eclipse them in this post. I just wanted to highlight the difference between those who choose virginity for religious reasons and those who choose to have sex. |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Ouch! Sounds like personal experience talking. |
very very very very very very true
Which is the reason I'm going stag from now on. |
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jazblanc77

Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 3:51 am Post subject: |
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TheMrCul wrote: |
Quote: |
I would argue that until you experience the turmoil of the emotions, responsibilities, and trust issues that come along with sex, you couldn't possibly have an adult understanding of love. |
I'm not getting on the offensive here, but I think that if you don't stick to/dedicate yourself to the other person, including the physical part of your life - if you think that experiences with other people count when it comes to this relationship, the one you're in, then you don't have an adult understanding of love. |
Like I said, I am not talking about a need for someone to be promiscuous to get "experience" and emotional maturity. It is entirely possible for someone to mature through sex with the first person they ever sleep with. I know several people where this was how it happened for them. I am also not talking about physical love/pleasure; that has no place in my argument. I am talking about love that is augmented and fortified by a mutual understanding of trust and respect; the kind that can only come from sharing an act of sexual intimacy with a partner. Lots of people have had sex, enjoyed it, and moved on without learning a thing. They were obviously with the wrong person at the wrong time. However, I am talking about people who are with "the one", people who are having sex out of love not just lust. If you think of it in this sense, maybe you can understand what I wrote previously a little more acutely. |
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huck
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:30 am Post subject: |
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If someone is choosing to stay a virgin due to religious reasons, then is that usually because they view sex outside of marriage as evil?
Honestly, I'm just curious. I know what I believe, but I've never had it beaten into my head that sex is a sin either. |
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pollyplummer

Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Location: McMinnvillve, Oregon
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: what they believe |
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In answer to your question, Christians generally believe that sex outside of marriage = fornication, which is explicitly prohibited by God in the Bible. But not because sex is bad in and of itself. Christians believe that God is our Father and that He knows what is best for us. They believe that He is wise beyond understanding and that He loves them. Personally, I believe there is wisdom in waiting. I don't always understand it, and it's not always easy, but it comes out of the same faith that a Christian has to have in order to believe that Jesus died for man's sins. The God who says that He gave Jesus to die for our sins is the same God who says that fornication is not good for you. And then follows trust... if He loves me enough to do that, then I must believe that He loves me even when He tells me not to do things that I cannot at all times understand with my body. That's how Christians believe in general. It's all about trusting Someone you cannot see with your eyes. And I understand how that can sound absolutely zany and bonkers to many people, even ludicrous and unfair. |
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shakuhachi

Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Location: Sydney
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:57 am Post subject: |
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A lot of you are taking this too seriously. A great many Korean girls that are not virgins claim they are. This is because they want you to view them in the best possible light. I think you can safely bet that the majority of Korean girls telling you they are virgins are infact not virgins at all.
Happy hunting. |
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