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Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject: Pat Robertson: God Won't Stop A Tsunami, BUT............. |
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Robertson's contradictory theology: God won't stop a tsunami -- but might respond to Gay Days with an earthquake
Responding to a question from ABC host George Stephanopoulos about why a God "so involved in our daily life" would allow a tsunami to kill hundreds of thousands of people, Rev. Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America, replied: "I don't think He reverses the laws of nature." That statement, on the May 1 edition of ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos, conflicts with other meteorological comments by Robertson, who has repeatedly linked natural disasters to the will of God.
After Orlando, Florida, city officials voted in 1998 to fly rainbow flags from city lampposts during the annual Gay Days event at Disney World, Robertson issued the city a warning: "I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you. ... [A] condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs, it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor."
Robertson claimed that his prayers to God helped steer Hurricane Gloria in 1985 and Hurricane Felix in 1995 away from Hampton Roads, Virginia, the headquarters of Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network, [according to The Virginian-Pilot (Norfolk, VA) on June 10, 1998. The Virginian-Pilot further noted that "Robertson also believes that various natural disasters are signs of God's will and that the world will suffer more of them before the arrival of 'the end of the age.' ''
From the May 1 edition of ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos:
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, Reverend Robertson, the God you describe is taking a very active, direct role in our lives. One of the earlier clips we showed said you had him saying, "I am removing justices from the Supreme Court," and I'm just wondering why does a God who is so involved in our daily life, so directly involved, allow something like a tsunami to kill several hundred thousand people in Asia?
ROBERTSON: I don't think He [God] reverses the laws of nature. The reason for that tsunami was the shifting of tectonic plates in the Indian Ocean. I don't think he changes the magma in volcanoes and I don't think he changes the wind currents to bring about hurricanes. So, I don't attribute that to God, or his lack, or otherwise. But in terms of human affairs, I do think he answers prayer and I think there have been literally millions of people praying for a change in the Supreme Court. The people of faith in this country feel they're on a tyranny and they see their liberties taken away from them and they've been beseeching God, fasting, and praying for years. So, I think he hears and answers their prayers.
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:19 am Post subject: |
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I once attended a debate in which Massimo Pigliucci argued for Evolutionism and Duane Gish argued for Creationism.
The subject of the echinoderms came up.
Pigliucci asked why the echinoderms went extinct.
Were they destroyed in a fit of Divine wrath?
Gish anwered, "No, they were destroyed in a natural catastrophe."
That surprised me, because I thought that Creationists thought that God and nature were one and the same.
Changing the subject:
Ever heard the Haydn Symphony no. 96 in D major?
It has been nicknamed the "Miracle Symphony" because in its first performance, the audience was so fascinated that they all crowded around the orchestra to get a close look.
Meanwhile, the chandelier over the audience seats fell from the ceiling, and anyone sitting under the chandelier would have gotten killed.
My question is, if God was in on all this, then why didn't God merely prevent the chandelier from falling in the first place? |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:14 am Post subject: |
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tomato wrote: |
I once attended a debate in which Massimo Pigliucci argued for Evolutionism and Duane Gish argued for Creationism.
The subject of the echinoderms came up.
Pigliucci asked why the echinoderms went extinct.
Were they destroyed in a fit of Divine wrath?
Gish anwered, "No, they were destroyed in a natural catastrophe."
That surprised me, because I thought that Creationists thought that God and nature were one and the same.
Changing the subject:
Ever heard the Haydn Symphony no. 96 in D major?
It has been nicknamed the "Miracle Symphony" because in its first performance, the audience was so fascinated that they all crowded around the orchestra to get a close look.
Meanwhile, the chandelier over the audience seats fell from the ceiling, and anyone sitting under the chandelier would have gotten killed.
My question is, if God was in on all this, then why didn't God merely prevent the chandelier from falling in the first place? |
I don't want to go real deeply religious here but, as it was explained to me in a theology class, God causes good things to happen and allows bad things to happen. It's all a part of the sinful condition of Man. Did God cause those people to get up from their seats? I dunno. Ask Him. God could have stopped the December tsunami, but allowed it to happen. Anyway, that's what some people believe. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 5:21 am Post subject: |
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I think the Reverend is cherry-picking again. Just as he picks out verses in the Bible that support his views and ignores those that don't, he attributes acts of Nature to god when it supports his desires and ignores other natural events that don't.
I don't think orthodox Christianity says god and nature are the same. It seems to me that that is pantheism, and is considered a heresy.
While it's fine for Stephanopolous to interview him on TV, I think it would do more good to let other Christian leaders point out his contradictions. |
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Blind Willie
Joined: 05 May 2004
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: |
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I hope Pat Robertson and the rest of those scumbags finally get their own island nation somewhere so they can go play theocracy with themselves.
I hear Afghanistan recently lost their fundamentalist overlords... |
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the saint
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Location: not there yet...
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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tomato wrote: |
I thought that Creationists thought that God and nature were one and the same. |
There are distinct heirarchies in creation. Think again. |
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Apple Scruff
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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I like to think that if there really is a God, Pat Robertson (and everyone like him) is riddled with crabs, and spends all his non-Church time scratching his junk silly. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:48 pm Post subject: re: |
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wannago wrote: |
tomato wrote: |
I once attended a debate in which Massimo Pigliucci argued for Evolutionism and Duane Gish argued for Creationism.
The subject of the echinoderms came up.
Pigliucci asked why the echinoderms went extinct.
Were they destroyed in a fit of Divine wrath?
Gish anwered, "No, they were destroyed in a natural catastrophe."
That surprised me, because I thought that Creationists thought that God and nature were one and the same.
Changing the subject:
Ever heard the Haydn Symphony no. 96 in D major?
It has been nicknamed the "Miracle Symphony" because in its first performance, the audience was so fascinated that they all crowded around the orchestra to get a close look.
Meanwhile, the chandelier over the audience seats fell from the ceiling, and anyone sitting under the chandelier would have gotten killed.
My question is, if God was in on all this, then why didn't God merely prevent the chandelier from falling in the first place? |
I don't want to go real deeply religious here but, as it was explained to me in a theology class, God causes good things to happen and allows bad things to happen. It's all a part of the sinful condition of Man. Did God cause those people to get up from their seats? I dunno. Ask Him. God could have stopped the December tsunami, but allowed it to happen. Anyway, that's what some people believe. |
I've always thought causing and allowing were two sides of the same coin. A loving father would certainly not cause his daughter to walk in front of an oncoming vehicle, but neither would he allow his daughter to do so. What's the difference in an omnipotent God not causing leukemia to take the life of a 5 year-old, but allowing it to do so. For any respondents who want to give the evangelical one-liner, "God knows best", please refrain. Also, for any respondent who wants to recommend C.S. Lewis on the problem of pain - I've already read it.
Daniel |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Pain and suffering are no more an argument against God than they are against life.
According to most Christian theology, God doesn't cause people to do anything, including mundane things such as getting up from their seats, because that would violate man's free will. As to God's active intervention in the Cosmos, miracles may complicate things. I remember I once read a theologian seriously arguing against miracles. Today, I don't understand how his argument was tenable, considering that nearly every sect of Christianity believes in at least one, major miracle.
Whatever you believe, either in God or not, in the miracle of the resurrection or not, in free will or not, it should be hard not to believe the truth of this statement: Pat Robertson clearly contradicts himself. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:46 am Post subject: ... |
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[A] condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs, it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor." |
Does that mean God is on the terrorists' side?
Whoa....
That's not very patriotic. |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I really wish God would choose a side, and fast. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:25 am Post subject: |
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I always have to laugh when I hear of fatal church bus accident.
Bus full of Christians crashes and people die. "They must have been very good Christians and God was calling them home!"
Bus full of homosexuals crashes and people die. "They were evil and this is a warning from God!"
Yep. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:52 am Post subject: |
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As long as the Bible is inconsistent, believers in the Bible can be inconsistent.
"God rains on the just and the unjust," but "All things work together for the good of those who glorify God." |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Blind Willie wrote: |
I hope Pat Robertson and the rest of those scumbags finally get their own island nation somewhere so they can go play theocracy with themselves.
I hear Afghanistan recently lost their fundamentalist overlords... |
Better than that, give him a one-way ticket to meet Jesus. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Robertson claimed that his prayers to God helped steer Hurricane Gloria in 1985 and Hurricane Felix in 1995 away from Hampton Roads, Virginia, the headquarters of Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network, [according to The Virginian-Pilot (Norfolk, VA) on June 10, 1998. |
Maybe his prayers inadvertently saved the PETA office (located in Norfolk, Va.)? |
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