|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
|
 Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Homer wrote: |
It is all very simple really.
Privates are illegal because they mean a teacher is earning income and not paying tax on it.
This is illegal in most countries because governments tend to dislike people working and not paying taxes.
There are also other problems with pvt lessons, namely the complete lack of verification and regulation. This can end up hurting the students and by extension other teachers.
Finally, this crackdown will not mean as the OP suggested that teachers doing only pvts will be immune. That was a laughable thing to say. They (immigration) do bust teachers running only on pvts. You are not invisible because you teach only pvts. In fact, you become more suspicious to them. How are you paying your rent? What do you live on? Where are you earning your income? and so on... |
It's also a form of protectionism for the hagwon industry, ensuring that they get their cut.
BTW, the theory that those here on a tourist visa can teach privates with near impunity (unless they are ratted out by a neighbor or ex girlfriend) will be refuted when immigration refuses to automatically renew tourist visas. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gollum
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mithridates wrote: |
| Quote: |
| They allow richer kids to get an advantage over poorer kids. |
This is probably the best argument against privates that I have been able to find thus far. |
Just charge the rich kids and hang out with some poor kids in the neighborhood for free. ahahahah |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Homer
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| It's also a form of protectionism for the hagwon industry, ensuring that they get their cut. |
I disagree.
Undelcared income had been a crime in most countries since Income tax started. Governments have a tendency to get annoyed when people work, earn some income and then pay no tax on it.
I don't see it as protectionism at all. The hakwon industry is not that well organized as to push the government for this law. In fact, this law applies to any worker who earns income and does not declare it, Korean or Foreign.
Finally, if you are a teacher and you are working stictly pvts it is a risk you have to assume and you also have to be ready to accept the consequences if you get busted. If you do, it will be the fault of no one else but your own. The teacher who does this makes a conscious choice of breaking a law. It is not the end of the world or a heinous crime, but it has legal ramifications.
As for the non-reniewable tourist visa that is a good point. But, it has to do with international agreements between Korea and other Countries.
Example: Canadians can come here withtout a visa and stay for 6 months. The reverse is true of Koreans who come to Canada. If Korea changes their law on tourist visas or terms then it will have an impact on Korean travellers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Homer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's also a form of protectionism for the hagwon industry, ensuring that they get their cut. |
I disagree.
Undelcared income had been a crime in most countries since Income tax started. Governments have a tendency to get annoyed when people work, earn some income and then pay no tax on it.
I don't see it as protectionism at all. The hakwon industry is not that well organized as to push the government for this law. In fact, this law applies to any worker who earns income and does not declare it, Korean or Foreign.
Finally, if you are a teacher and you are working stictly pvts it is a risk you have to assume and you also have to be ready to accept the consequences if you get busted. If you do, it will be the fault of no one else but your own. The teacher who does this makes a conscious choice of breaking a law. It is not the end of the world or a heinous crime, but it has legal ramifications.
As for the non-reniewable tourist visa that is a good point. But, it has to do with international agreements between Korea and other Countries.
Example: Canadians can come here withtout a visa and stay for 6 months. The reverse is true of Koreans who come to Canada. If Korea changes their law on tourist visas or terms then it will have an impact on Korean travellers. |
Not like foreign teachers are given the chance to declare their income. Remember you can teach privates - but only if you have the right blood.
All the ban on privates does is preserve the monopoly for the hogwons.
| Quote: |
<koreaherald1> [Editorial] Tutoring unbanned
The Constitutional Court ruled Thursday that a law banning out-of-school tutoring is unconstitutional and infringes the basic rights of the people more than is necessary. The ruling, which came in response to two appeals made in 1998, one by the Seoul District Court and the other by five professors at a Seoul music college, lifted the 20-year-old ban on off-campus lessons for students in this country.
Despite concerns that the ruling may have a negative impact by encouraging a renewed boom in private tutoring, it is in fact long overdue. The time has long past since when we could resort to the rather simplistic means of banning to solve this deep-seated problem in our educational system. It's time to seriously seek ways to bring fundamental reform to the system in order to accommodate the increasing enthusiasm for education in our society.
The ban on extracurricular lessons was enacted in 1980 as a remedy to special conditions facing the country at that time. The rapid economic development in the 1970s and the resulting increase in income produced a drastic growth in the demand for education, both in terms of quality and quantity. The school system at the time, however, failed to meet these new expectations and demands. The result was a frenzy of students' extracurricular activity.
The rampant out-of-school lessons for students not only put a heavy financial burden on parents. They also placed public school education in danger and became a source of social conflict between the haves and the have-nots. The military government in power at the time chose an extreme measure to resolve the problem.
Over the past 20 years, many teachers have been punished for illegally providing private lessons to their students. Numerous parents, including many celebrities, have had to resign their posts for having their children receive private tutoring. But as long as the school system fails to satisfy parents, a legal ban cannot be effective.
A survey conducted in 1980 found that 13 percent of elementary school students, 15 percent of middle school students and 26 percent of high school students took private lessons of some kind. By 1997, the percentage of students taking private lessons had increased to 70 percent in the elementary schools and 50 percent in the middle and high schools.
The ban on private tutoring itself has been modified considerably. The law that was stuck down Thursday took effect in 1996. It includes many exceptions for subjects like the technology and arts, as well as an exception for private tutoring by college and university students. Middle and high school students were also permitted to participate in classes provided by private, registered institutions. The ruling by the Constitutional Court merely lifts the remaining prohibitions.
The abolition of the ban is certain to make extracurricular lessons more popular for a time. The Ministry of Education has recently estimated that a total of 6.8 trillion won was spent on private education in the country last year. That is half the amount that the government spends on education annually. The popularity of private tutoring testifies to poor public school education.
Many agree that schools remain as one of the least developed areas in Korean society. The government allocates about 20 percent of its budgets to education, but most of this money is spent on the compulsory elementary school system. Spending on elementary education accounted for 71 percent of the government's total educational budget in 1998 and 65 percent in 1997.
The financial condition of middle and high schools are correspondingly weak. Despite some recent changes, many Korean parents still make sending their children to prestigious colleges and universities their highest priority. Distrust of school education has made them turn to private institutions. The government has implemented a series of measures to improve the college entrance system, but most of these measures merely forced parents to spend even more money on out-of-school lessons for their children.
Drastic but realistic measures are necessary to improve school education and the college entrance system. The exceptional zeal for education among Korean parents ensures that private tutoring will not disappear as long as the reality in the schools fails to meet their expectations. |
http://myhome.thrunet.com/~casiopaya/000429.html
| Quote: |
F4 Visa (Overseas Adopted Koreans)
Top of Page
This came into effect after December 3rd, 1999. This visa allows OAKs (Overseas Adopted Koreans) to live and work in Korea indefinitely. This means OAKs are able to work and live in Korea just as a native Koreans.
Who can obtain this visa?
People of Korean decent residing overseas that immigrated after 1948.
Overseas Korean Nationals (Haewe-Hankook/Dongpo = Kyopo)
Foreign National Koreans (Wekook-Kookjeok-Dongpo = OAKs, Overseas Adopted Koreans)
Koreans born overseas with another citizenship.
Koreans who have changed their citizenship.
How does this benefit you?
Legal status in Korea for two years and renewable without having to leave the country. If you decide to move within these two years, you must notify Seoul Immigration office.
You no longer need a sponsor from a school, company, family or friend. This means working, school, or family visas are not necessary.
You can buy land, property, housing, or open up a business.
Private tutoring is now legal.
Employment in companies will be a little easier to obtain, as the companies will not have the hassle of foreign paper work for a work visa. But speaking Korean is always a plus! |
http://www.goal.or.kr/english/guide/f4.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ladyandthetramp
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
|
| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
Privates are illegal. I am against anyone, rich or poor, going to illegal measures to gain an advantage.
|
What would you think about private drum lessons?
The only difference is the subject.
If someone is really interested in something, such as the drums, should they not be allowed to study under someone? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
|
| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
I am who I am. No changing that. A law abiding individual. I have no reason to feel shame for respecting the law, following it and wishing others would too. Privates are illegal, Mith. Whether we like it, or not. They are illegal, and those who teach privates are criminals. |
So, you never answered Mith's question.
If you were a lifer ESLer in Singapore, who you refrain from oral sex?
And don't cop-out by saying you would never live there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
|
| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 12:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| the eye wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
I am who I am. No changing that. A law abiding individual. I have no reason to feel shame for respecting the law, following it and wishing others would too. Privates are illegal, Mith. Whether we like it, or not. They are illegal, and those who teach privates are criminals. |
So, you never answered Mith's question.
If you were a lifer ESLer in Singapore, who you refrain from oral sex?
And don't cop-out by saying you would never live there. |
We dont live in Sinagpore. We live in South Korea. I deal in realities. I let litle boys, like YOU, pretend to be cowboys and fight imaginary indians. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
um, yeah... right...good metaphor. it would be better if you knew when to apply it, though.
at any rate, i knew you'd duck the question. if you were serious about your convictions, you would have reflected that instead of cowardice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| In North Korea it is against the law to leave the country. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Mostly they stem from the fact that privates are immoral. They allow richer kids to get an advantage over poorer kids. This perpetuates many problems tied in with class and economic power of certain individuals over others. |
That's a very weak arguement. How about private music lessons? Have you ever had piano lessons when growing up? If so, then you had an unfair advantage in music class over the students who didn't. Let's ban those. What about swimming lessons? Banned. Oh, but let's not stop there. Luxury automobiles, such as the Mercedes, BMWs, etc, should also be made illegal because they allow the richer people to have a more comfortable commute to and from work, thus giving them an unfair advantage over the poor people riding the bus. Lets also make gourmet food illegal since it's more nutritious than ramen, thus making the richer people healthier, which again gives them an unfair advantage over the poor working class who can only dream of spending lunch breaks in a fancy restaurant. Lets also ban the new microprocessors, which give an unfair advantage to the rich kids playing games online. Lets also ban import beers since they don't give as bad a hangover as soju, thus giving an unfair advantage at work to the people who can afford it. Oh, lets ban electricity and potable water while we're at it since it gives the richer nations an unfair advantage over the developing ones.
Where do we stop? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| In North Korea it is against the law to leave the country. |
Brilliant, Joo.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paperbag princess
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell
|
| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| what about all the koreans who teach private lessons? is anyone going to bust them, i think not. what about the people who hire people for private lessons, what consequences do they face? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| paperbag princess wrote: |
| what about all the koreans who teach private lessons? is anyone going to bust them, i think not. what about the people who hire people for private lessons, what consequences do they face? |
If the problem is taxation, then they should allow foreign residents (anyone holding an F visa) to teach privates as long as they declare the revenue. As far as I can tell, an F2 and F5 visa gives one the right to do any job he or she is qualified to do. If that is the case, why aren't university graduates holding and F2/F5 visa not allowed to tutor since all that is required for a tutoring license is a high school diploma? The answer is quite simple: the Korean government doesn't want any money to leave the country. Case in point: a Korean entertainers was charged a few years ago for loosing about 17000$ in Las Vegas (to put it into perspective, that's one hand of high stakes poker, and a drop in the bucket for someone who earns 2 million dollars a year like most Korean entertainers do). Don't forget, about 20 years ago South Koreans could only exit the country under the permission of the government, which they usually received if they were exiting the country to work, thus bringing in foreign currency. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Homer
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
That is true hollywood.
They should just let foreign teachers teach pvts and declare their income and pay tax on it. This would be the perfect and simplest solution.
Along with this you would need some sort of regulative agency to check who is teaching. This would mean a simple check with immigration to make sure the teacher is actually qualified to teach. This would be beneficial to the students and teachers who could operate in a more open system.
It would also regulate the price of the lessons and perhaps drive it down a little. It could also reduce the number of teachers willing to do pvts because now they would not have to pay tax on that income (then again this might drive the price back up as less teachers are available!  ).
Overall this would be a good thing.
| Quote: |
| what about all the koreans who teach private lessons? is anyone going to bust them, i think not. what about the people who hire people for private lessons, what consequences do they face? |
Oh and paperbag. Koreans teaching pvts who get busted have to deal with the Revenue agency and pay fines. Remarkably this is very similar to what happens to people who get busted earning un-taxed income back home.....As for those who hire pvt teachers I have no idea what happens to them. They would however be better served by a regulated tutoring market. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
|
| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 3:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now, I agree this sounds like something out of the 1980s, but...
Foreigners Caught Teaching Privates: Arrest, shakedown, automatic deportation. (regardless of visa status)
Koreans Caught Hiring Foreigner Tutors: 10,000,000 won fine, tax audits of parents and immediate family members.
Whistle-blowers: 10,000,000 won cash reward per head.
Problem solved.
Would it even take a week? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
