Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Manner of Speaking]

I was at the Asian EFL Journal Conference & Law Forum in Busan on Saturday, held at Dongseo University (and so prominently displayed in the banner at the top of the page. ).

The conference was similar to the one I attended two years ago...some interesting guest speakers, a lot of book shilling, and one or two interesting research projects presented. I liked Rod Ellis's presentation and got some ideas for teaching my students from it, and plan to buy his book. Dr. Cathy Yi's research on pronounciation strategies by Korean high-level learners of English was also rather interesting.

However, I'm somewhat at a loss as to what exactly happened at the end of the EFL-Law Forum. It was nice to see The Poet again and meet Chronicpride -- I was happy to hear about his new website project (www.galbijim.com). There was (as always) some good practical information presented by the lawyers...but according to the above banner, there was supposed to be some in-depth discussion about forming some kind of teacher's association or union. Or resource center. However, one of the presenters, Paul, seemed to mention at the end that the Ministry of Justice would be opposed to the formation of any new foreigner teacher's association, even if it's an association of legal visa holding teachers.

Is that what happened? Did I miss something? It's just that there didn't seem to be much final purpose to the forum. Admittedly I might have missed the ending...

[canukteacher]

I was at the EFL Forum. You didn't miss anything. Personally, I thought the Korean guy from the court or immigration was a waste of time. I never did figure out what his point was. I gathered a few interesting tidbits of information, but I'm not sure what really was accomplished in that session.

My big disappointment was the advertised job board that did not materialize. Apparently there was someone running around with a file folder with info. on some universities who are looking for people, but these were never posted anywhere. Personally I think it was a bit irresponsible to advertise a job board, and then not follow through with it.

I did enjoy Rod Ellis and Phyllis Chew. They both gave interesting and informative talks.

[Paji eh Wong]

[chronicpride]

The EFL-Law forum didn't appear to have much structure as they originally planned. There was nothing noteworthy that I took out of there, other than EFL-Law guy's rundown of the paperwork involved if one wanted to get consent from their employer and the other employer, to teach privately. Plus the english lawyer(shawn or mark? Can't remember) and his explanation of legal process involving small claims court. And the guy from immigration showing a presentation that said that there were roughly 1000 illegal teachers in Korea, which was basically the same as him saying that they have absolutely no friggin idea how many are here, but we better use a low official estimate to appease the media. No follow-up answer from them on my question about how they came up with the 1000 figure(which was waived because I must have crossed the 'be considerate of the cultural implication when posing questions to Koreans'/'wear your muzzle tightly, yet comfortably' lecture that we got at the beginning of the forum), considering that in 2003, govt stats show that 2.5 million+ people entered this country on tourist visas(B2+C3 totals) and are free to slip away into the cracks of their society, not to mention that the MoJ also said that year that 80.1% of foreign workers in this country are illegal.

The union thing was brought up very lightly, then smacked down shortly thereafter. The guy from immigration and the very informative lawyer alluded to the fact that, technically, a union would be legal, but the Korean govt has gone on the record with the speakers that they would vehemently come down on any such thing. The english lawyer raised a very good point over why people care so much about forming a teacher's union and not expanding it to being a foreigner's union, which would then encompass foreign businessmen and lawyers, and therefore people who may have some tangible influence with govt and industry and knowledge on how to leverage it. But that all digressed back to viscious circle of esl discussion that we are in and have always been in. EFL-Law guy mentioned that his focus is going to be slowly moving away from his site and towards a new business venture that he is taking on elsewhere in the world.

In short, pretty much all the key people in the industry who would have a real, legit shot at leading and drafting an informed and solid approach at forming a union, was in that room and it was decidedly kaiboshed on the grounds that the govt wouldn't stand for it, so much so that going to court to enforce that right would be a total waste of money and time. The only solution that came out of it was forming a more broader support center, along the lines of the Seoul Help Center for Foreigners, but funding is the obvious issue there.

[Teufelswacht]

[chronicpride]

We were told to play nice in advance, because there were two Koreans there, one being the asst. director of Immigration, and the other being a guy high up in the police force or something. Apparently, last year, there were some fiesty questions posed and the Korean speakers didn't want to come back again. So, we were told by one of the foreign organizers to speak clearly and slowly, but also be mindful of the cultural significance that your question may indirectly have on a person from this culture. I asked about how Immigration ascertained the illegal teacher figure and it was given the we'll-come-back-to-that-one treatment.

[Teufelswacht]

[TECO]

Does Japan seem more progressive in this regard?

Thousands of EFL teachers and foreign workers belong to full-on, legitimate unioins across Japan.

I find it hard to believe that the Korean Government won't allow it workers to organize.

[hari seldon]

I always assumed a union would be illegal but thought an advocacy/legal aid association would be legal and beneficial. It would give us a voice in education and immigration reform. We could use some PR help with our public image and EFL Law or a similar entity needs a funding mechanism.

Don't multi-nationals already hire lobbyists in Korea? I don't believe it's uncommon in the U.S. although it gets controversial when government connections are suspected as with the Chinese.

[JongnoGuru]

[prosodic]

[chronicpride]

[Manner of Speaking]

I don't want to give the impression that I thought the EFL Law Forum was all bad...I learned some very interesting new tips re: applying liens on employers who refuse to pay you and such, and I think their opening requests to act civilly were not too much to ask. At this forum we/they are asking government officials to appear out of the goodness of their heart, and to speak to an audience in a language foreign to them. It's just...it seemed to peter out in the end, with no clear final purpose.

[napoleon8]

I read at efl-law.org/forums/ that someone was planning to ask about hagwons pocketing pension money instead of paying it to the government (as they are legally required to do); but the forum appears now to be defunct. So can someone tell me if the issue of pension was brought up at the Asian EFL Journal Conference & Law Forum in Busan? What did any Korean government official have to say about the issue?

[dg611]

I didn't attend the meeting but I was waiting for some information on what happened...it sounds like it was only marginally usefull and the big issue that was supposed to be brought up was squashed like an ugly bug.

I don't know about anyone else but hearing that the ministry of justice would not sit still for the formation of a foreigner teachers union just raises the hairs on the back of my neck and makes me want it even more.

Is it just me or does it seem like ministry of justice's only job is to make sure that foreigners don't get any real voice here? If you want to come here and teach quietly and obediently for a year or two that's fine...but if you might want to live here for a while...they are there to make sure that you don't make too much money or anything like that. The only way you can really do anything is if you are willing to learn to speak fluent korean and become a korean citizen...which is ridiculous because you can never really be a 'part' of society here, even if you are a citizen...no one will really believe it unless you are a Robert Holley and on TV all the time so that everyone will see it...even then...you're still an outsider. And you know what? I'm ok with being and outsider in society....I just object to being kept from working in a way that would best support my family. I could make a shiteload of money teaching privates....I get asked frequently enough...and if I could actually put up some advertisements...J.H.C!!. I could buy my own apartment instead of living on 1.7mill a month (after taxes, pension, etc.) in my employers apartment.

What we really need is some of these heavyweight foreign investors that are here for the long-haul to throw down and put their weight behind some real immigration reform...god knowsMOJ won't do it themselves..bunch of racists!

If anybody read this all the way through....thanks...I just needed to vent.
I feel much better already..