Korean Job Discussion Forums

[hypnotist]

What drives support for this torturer

Oil and gas ensure that the US backs the Uzbek dictator to the hilt

Craig Murray
Monday May 16, 2005
The Guardian

The bodies of hundreds of pro-democracy protesters in Uzbekistan are scarcely cold, and already the White House is looking for ways to dismiss them. The White House spokesman Scott McClellan said those shot dead in the city of Andijan included "Islamic terrorists" offering armed resistance. They should, McClellan insists, seek democratic government "through peaceful means, not through violence".

But how? This is not Georgia, Ukraine or even Kyrgyzstan. There, the opposition parties could fight elections. The results were fixed, but the opportunity to propagate their message brought change. In Uzbek elections on December 26, the opposition was not allowed to take part at all.

Full story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1484631,00.html

Note that whilst this guy is clearly not the biggest fan of the British Government, most of the facts in this piece are supported by the reports of international news agencies.

[R. S. Refugee]

Rumsfeld embraces Saddam





Rumsfeld embraces Karimov




Man, that Rumsfeld gets around to embrace
all the mass murderers, dont' he?

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

[img]http://images.google.co.kr/images?q=tbn:a7gfs6ywfpEJ:www.shia-islam.org/khamenei-khomeni.jpg[/img]

[hypnotist]

Ok, Joo, let me ask you a question.

Two states. One is a democracy ruled by a theocratic and anti-US Islamic government (but one which does not actively threaten other states). The other is a brutal dictatorship which kills its own people for daring to fight for democracy, but which is strongly pro-US in an area where the US has economic interests and geopolitical ambitions.

Why does American rhetoric favour the first, yet American actions favour the second?

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

Talking about Iran?


Iran is no democracy. The ruler of Iran and the only one who counts is Ali Khamani. Any candidate who isn't are hardliner can't run for office.

In 1989 alone Khomeni killed 30,000 people

Iran says they want to nuke Israel , Iran has supported terror against the US Iran for years tried to spread its revolution.

I need for you to set the record straight on Iran before I can have the discussion

[hypnotist]

Nah, I'm talking in the abstract (but with particular thought to Uzbekistan and the other former Soviet republics).

I don't think you could call Iran a democracy by any stretch of the imagination. I would note that if I were Iran I'd be really rather concerned about Israel (my enemy) having (illegal and undeclared) nukes on my doorstep, and that the NPT gives it the right to nuclear power, but that's about as much sympathy as that regime is getting from me.

But I don't want to get dragged into a discussion about Iran. To put my question another way - does America only support democracy if the people will vote for a government it likes?

[Homer]

No to upstage but here is my two cents...

[hypnotist]

Homer,

Right - what has changed is the message from the American Government - "we are on the side of freedom" etc etc. Only when it suits your interests, chaps.

This was most interesting though:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1484718,00.html

Straw condemns Uzbekistan after 500 protesters are killed

Nick Paton Walsh in Moscow and Ewen MacAskill in London
Monday May 16, 2005
The Guardian

The British government clashed openly with Uzbekistan yesterday over the violent suppression of a protest in the former Soviet republic that the Foreign Office said had left hundreds dead.

In an unusual condemnation of a country routinely described as a loyal ally by both Britain and the US, Jack Straw, the foreign secretary, said yesterday there had been a "clear abuse of human rights".

[...]

The Foreign Office, based on information from its embassy in Tashkent, has acknowledged the toll was "in the hundreds rather than dozens".

In an interview with the BBC's The World This Weekend yesterday, Mr Straw said: "The situation is very serious, there has been a clear abuse of human rights, a lack of democracy and a lack of openness."

Mr Straw also called on the Uzbekistan government to allow independent observers, such as the Red Cross, to visit Andijan.

But asked if Britain would support an opposition movement, he said: "It's for the people to decide on a change of regime, not outsiders."

[R. S. Refugee]