|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
chance2005
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
|
 Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:58 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| pollyplummer wrote: |
| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
| Ya know, Polly, for a cute girl you come out sounding pretty shrill. |
My dear Pyongshin, I will give you a hint into the world of women.  If you ever encounter more of this kind, and if you listen carefully, you will find that all the noise, the shrillness, and the impertinence roughly translates to one thing: Subdue me. If you wrestle and you win, then you will have her, or at least you will have her admiration.
But back to the topic at hand... Periwinkle was expressing her opinion. Then someone insinuated that she is a snob, simply because she chose to express a preference/frustration. It seems that many people on this board believe that if you are not completely enamoured with Eastern culture, then you must be insensitive and narrow-minded. I would even venture to say that there is a great deal of pressure on westerners from foreigners and Koreans alike for us to somehow adopt an infatuation with the East in order to justify our reasons for being here or perhaps even to feed the ego of Asians who fish for compliments about Korea. Oh, isnt kimchi the best? Isnt our food the spiciest? Did you know that we are number one at__________." Not all Koreans are like this, but it is quite prevalent. Certainly I would not respond in a rude way. The reality is that Ajuma Neighbor Next Door probably loves your orange couch, but I'm sorry, the instincts I've been programmed with tell me that it's hideous. I wouldn't say that to a woman looking for compliments on her orange couch, but that's what's going through the mind of your average westerner. Then you've got your eastern culture zealot peers who demand that you suppress such thinking or be labeled an insensitive snob. This doesn't happen back home. If someone back home says, "I hate lawn decorations," or "I hate the color pink," we don't hear anyone indignantly returning their opinion with, "Why you narrow-minded, insensitive snob!" |
Keep fightin' the good fight, you know we love it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Draven
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Lemon wrote: |
| pollyplummer wrote: |
It seems that many people on this board believe that if you are not completely enamoured with Eastern culture, then you must be insensitive and narrow-minded. I would even venture to say that there is a great deal of pressure on westerners from foreigners and Koreans alike for us to somehow adopt an infatuation with the East in order to justify our reasons for being here or perhaps even to feed the ego of Asians who fish for compliments about Korea....
If someone back home says, "I hate lawn decorations," or "I hate the color pink," we don't hear anyone indignantly returning their opinion with, "Why you narrow-minded, insensitive snob!" |
Astute, and correct. Calling Korean tastes in furniture, fashion, architecture, auto accessories - hell, everything, "tacky" and "gaudy" might be ethnocentric of us.
But it's still true... |
I think you're right, for the most part. The problem with polly's example of lawn furniture back home is that it is only analagous to the OP if she wrote something like "Most Americans are so tacky. Can you believe they actually decorate their lawns?" which is basically how the OP phrased her post. Generalizations, even ones qualified by "many" or "most" tend to raise the ire of people on here. Does that make them zealots?
Certainly we all bring our ethnocentric, socio-economic biases to discussions like this. The important thing to bear in mind, which is what Fidel was getting at, was that just because you don't like the aesthetics of something, that doesn't make someone else wrong because he thinks it's totally groovy. The OP though, well, she went to Art School, so she KNOWS aesthetics better than Koreans. That's what makes her a snob.
| Merriam-Webster Online wrote: |
| snob: one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste |
Does the shoe fit? You bet it does, and the more I think about it, the less I think that is a bad thing. Because taste in aesthetics is inherently subjective, perhaps the test should be whether one can criticize the fashion without criticizing the person wearing it, I don't know.
Now, to get on the bandwagon of tackiness in this country and expose some of my own ethnocentricities, every time I drive up to my box of an apartment building, I feel like a bit of my soul dies. It's just so ugly. I was shocked when my wife told me that many Koreans aspire to live in these boxes; that it's much higher status than many other dwellings here. I can't figure that mindset out. I'm with the OP about the overhead lighting, too. Man, I'd love to have a nice warm lamp on in the corner sometimes.
What do you know? I guess I'm a snob too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I was shocked when my wife told me that many Koreans aspire to live in these boxes; that it's much higher status than many other dwellings here. I can't figure that mindset out. |
It really is a different world view, isn't it? Where we come from, if you tell a teenager, "you're just like everyone else", it's assumed to be a mortal insult. In Korea it seems to be reassuring praise.
But I don't think those rows of Lego apartments are tacky - more like soul-less and monolithic, like a backdrop to that famous Apple Macintosh "1984" commercial. Give me a "villa" any day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pollyplummer wrote: |
My dear Pyongshin, I will give you a hint into the world of women. If you ever encounter more of this kind, and if you listen carefully, you will find that all the noise, the shrillness, and the impertinence roughly translates to one thing: Subdue me. If you wrestle and you win, then you will have her, or at least you will have her admiration.
|
Polly, no offense, but please don't speak for all women about such matters. In case you couldn't guess from the avatar, I've got zero interest in being subdued. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Tackiness |
|
|
To the original OP, there's no argument: you've got a good point. Housing-wise, it seems that there's only one company making the wallpaper... seems everyone's got the same flowery, crappy wallpaper. And what's up with the floors? Fake hardwood? Heh. The housing ideas are quite crazy... Don't get me started on the architecture, I won't bother, cause we all know it's strangely concentration-camp-like with a dash of industrial factory thrown in. 
Some here mentioned clothing. The clothing here is kind of funny sometimes, especially with the couples who wear the same shirts. I tried explaining that to my Korean teachers, but they didn't quite understand why it is so funny to me.
And just before I end my post, a couple more things I keep saying "what's up with that?" to:
1) The proliferance of Mickey Mouse shirts. Whad up???
2) All the pink. Everywhere! And too much color... in general. Don't get it.
3) Those dumb shirts. You know what I mean, the "juicy" ones, etc. Stupid stupid stupid.
4) Sticking the stir sticks inside the mouth of your coffee at DaVinci coffee (in Daegu) even though it is mixed and you cannot mix anything into it! Rrrr, don't get me started on this try-to-be-a-coffee-shop disaster...
5) Bright red lipstick on very pale-skinned women.... uuuughhhh, turns me off right away...
6) Music taste. Heh... I'd like to DJ here, but... I am scared at what it will do to me. I think it's like selling your soul to Satan himself! Repent sinners!
Sorry for being snobby and maybe even slightly queer eye for the straight guy here, but come on... Maybe the longer someone spends in Korea, the less they see it. I am relatively new here, so I see it bigtime. Korea is a great country, just needs some time to improve its tastes in the things it is new to: fashion, different types of Western culture including music and coffee, and leaping into the new millenium.
To the OP, sooooooo very true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
periwinkle
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Apple Scruff"]Koreans may be the tackier dressers, but the westerners in this country are just plain sloppy.
You know, I haven't seen this. I've worked in a couple of different hakwons, a uni, and now an office, and everyone (minus 2 guys- 1 guy actually got fired for his poor hygiene- he was a good guy, though) was always very presentable. Definitely more casually dressed than Koreans (I'm talking about in a work environment), but clean and well-groomed. My co-workers personal style definitely varied from person to person (I've worked with rugged types, hippies, guys who continued to wear some of their motorcycle gear all day, a guy who wore a bandana as a head-scarf because he was embarrassed by premature baldness, and people at uni who wore suits everyday). Nothing was over-the-top, though. Sometimes the Korean teachers at the uni complained that the foreign teachers were too casually dressed (I was told by my director not to wear open-toed shoes, which I ignored, as that rule didn't seem to apply to the Korean teachers), but no one was ever unkempt.
Side note: last weekend I was in Shinchon, and I saw several off-duty American soldiers in FULL ON hip hop gear. I thought they looked really out of place, and my fiance just shook his head in bewilderment. I mean, they would look ok on the mean streets of Compton, but man, they stuck out like sore thumbs. I feel kind of bad picking on the soldiers (they could be contractors, too, not sure), but I have to point out the guys that also look like truckers with their too-tight Harley shirts stretched tight over their protuding guts (usually you can see some of their hairy belly poking out, too)- ewwwwwwww. Kudos to the Koreans for not making those kinds of mistakes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Tackiness |
|
|
| brento1138 wrote: |
4) Sticking the stir sticks inside the mouth of your coffee at DaVinci coffee (in Daegu) even though it is mixed and you cannot mix anything into it!
|
What the?! I don't understand what's wrong with people doing that, or what those little stir stick things are about. Can you use them as straws if the coffee is too hot? Please enlighten me.
Open up any western fashion magazine, pink is supposed to be in this season- and whilst it looks supergay on most white fellas, I think it looks good on asian men. Those mickey mouse shirts were something I saw being touted as the next big thing for women the last time I was back in England too- in fact I saw an advert the other day when (rappers) Clipse were wearing Yosemite Sam jackets. Horrendous, but not just a Korean thing.
As for couple shirts, I saw the most unblelievable thing the other day- people who looked good in them:
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| My dear Pyongshin, I will give you a hint into the world of women. If you ever encounter more of this kind, and if you listen carefully, you will find that all the noise, the shrillness, and the impertinence roughly translates to one thing: Subdue me. If you wrestle and you win, then you will have her, or at least you will have her admiration. |
Wowawiwa! I'm awake now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cabbit
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To the original few postings
I love the way that a lot of Koreans dont give a hoot what others think of them. Its quite refreshing from the stuck up snobbery of Europe and the west. Personally I am happy to be in a country where I can wear what I like, decorate my house how I like without the biitchy queeer eye snobbery of the west (dont get me wrong I do LOVE that show and it has its place).
I will look how I look and if you dont like it then bugger off and dont look at me!! Honestly luv...whats the big deal?
Do what makes you happy.
Baring that.....keep posting so i have something to read on boring exam days!!!
Thanks for the romp in tack.....
HUGS
p.s we should contact the FAB 5 and get them to re-do someone here in Korea....or Taiwan..hehe I did find Taiwan to be quite tacky....but I loved it.
Oh and why are Biitchy and queeer considered swear words by dave? Thats very very queeer!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I love the way that a lot of Koreans dont give a hoot what others think of them. |
Been in Korea long?
Koreans are obsessed about how other nationalites see them. It's just that they really do believe that fake, 18thC, French furniture is classy. And they think you will be impressed by it too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cabbit
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Im sure a lot are trying to impress....the mass stereotyping on this forum bores me..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| eamo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I love the way that a lot of Koreans dont give a hoot what others think of them. |
Been in Korea long?
Koreans are obsessed about how other nationalites see them. It's just that they really do believe that fake, 18thC, French furniture is classy. And they think you will be impressed by it too. |
What's that sound? Oh, I know. The ring of truth. Well put, Eamo. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DRAMA OVERKILL
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:49 am Post subject: Re: Tackiness |
|
|
[quote="periwinkle"]Ambiance is missing, too. I burn a scented candle every night, and I try not to use the overhead lights. I like soft light, but Koreans prefer glaringly bright lights. Why is this? Maybe people think, "Why buy lamps when I have overhead lights?" So much for subtlety and mood.
I too prefer a dimmed room with candles lit, the only other light being the glow of the television... I too have noticed at Korean people's homes very brightly lit rooms... Why do they do this? I have an idea...  (this is me having an idea)...
A few nights ago, around 1am, I was stretched out on the sofa watching a movie, candles lit, lights off, the glow of the tv... I then heard someone at my door, trying to get in...
I went to the door, hit the entry-way light, and opened it... A young punk-ass is what I found, peering in through my bedroom window... I yelled and tried to chase him, but the bugger got away... Had a friend call the police and give a vague description of the guy...
Get this - 20 minutes later, the same asshole returned to my door and continued to try to get it open... I again tried to chase him (barefoot), but he again got away... In a fairly quiet neighborhood of elderlies and families, perhaps it's not so safe afterall...
Anyway, when telling the story to my boss, co-worker, and a handul of other Koreans I'm asked - "If you were home and not yet in bed, why wouldn't you have the lights on?"
Glarings lights - perhaps a deterrent to would-be intruders, thieves, and perverts? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Saxiif wrote: |
| Nouveau riche are the same everywhere, lots of money but no taste. Same goes for America, old money generally have vastly better house decor than self-made people (in addition to generally being huge assholes, but that's another questions). There's very very very little old money in Korea so pretty much all the rich people here are insanely tacky. Apparently this sort of thing is even worse in China since there's even less old money in China than in Korea for obvious reasons. Give Korea a generation of so and they'll start catching up to Japan in style, which should be interesting to see. |
You hit the nail on the head. Though, I would have to say that it is usually the people of the nouveau riche are usually much more poorly behaved and snobby than those from old money. They generally brag more, show more flash, and are more demanding and rude than people of old money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
coolsage
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Korean society possesses the approximate subtlety of a SWAT team, and the architecture is egregious, even soul-deadening, as a previous poster mentioned. But Korea has no monopoly on tack. In the USA, there are more plastic flamingoes than real ones. You can look it up. How's that for tasteless? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
