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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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 Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| There are several Quebec born Canadians teaching in Korea. Most of them have excellent English skills or are simply fluent in English with little or no discernable accent. You are making a judgement based on ignorance. |
very true.
my best friend here was born in Italy, emmigrated to Montreal at 7 years old, where he lived until coming here to teach.
he has pronunciation clearer than most anglophones.
i would have never guessed he was not a native english speaker.
he's an excellent teacher, to boot...always at the top of the student rating scheme. |
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jay-shi
Joined: 09 May 2004
Location: On tour
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Even an excellent English speaking Francophone (if French is their 1st language) is about as good as Korean to teach English. |
I beg to differ.
There are several Quebec born Canadians teaching in Korea. Most of them have excellent English skills or are simply fluent in English with little or no discernable accent. You are making a judgement based on ignorance. |
I am French Canadian.
I was born in an anglophone area of Montreal. I started learning English when I started socializing with friends, at the age of three, or thereabouts. I did all my post secondary studies at English universities.
I have no accent in English other than an English Canadian one. I am simply fluent in French and English. I consider myself a native speaker of both languages. Thinking that I can't teach English better than a Korean is ludicrous. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Even an excellent English speaking Francophone (if French is their 1st language) is about as good as Korean to teach English.
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Comments like this one show incredible ignorance. One of the best English teachers I've met in Korea was born in the Netherlands. He lived in the States for 10 years or so (got his green card), and has no discernable accent.
A few years ago, Immigration changed their rules to disallow E-2's for people whose nationalities are from any country other than native English-speaking countries. This Dutch friend ended up not being renewed at my previous uni because of these new Immigration laws, much to the chagrin and dismay of the program and my friend. He has since been unable to land an E-2.
This was a teacher I learned a lot from. He has since written & published 2 books in English (one bio about Hiddink, another about Koreans & their culture, due to come out soon). His command of the English language is better than most native speakers I know, and he sounds like you or me.
Korea lost a great teacher because of ignorant thinking like the post I quoted. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: yes |
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I think you are wrong. If the job ad is only for NATIVE SPEAKER and you pass yourself off as one, you are a fraud. Plain and simple.
If the school knows English is your 2nd language, and they hire you, goodie for you. You got lucky.
If you learn 2 simultaneously, then you are a native speaker of both. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanson wrote: |
| Quote: |
Even an excellent English speaking Francophone (if French is their 1st language) is about as good as Korean to teach English.
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Comments like this one show incredible ignorance. One of the best English teachers I've met in Korea was born in the Netherlands. He lived in the States for 10 years or so (got his green card), and has no discernable accent.
A few years ago, Immigration changed their rules to disallow E-2's for people whose nationalities are from any country other than native English-speaking countries. This Dutch friend ended up not being renewed at my previous uni because of these new Immigration laws, much to the chagrin and dismay of the program and my friend. He has since been unable to land an E-2.
This was a teacher I learned a lot from. He has since written & published 2 books in English (one bio about Hiddink, another about Koreans & their culture, due to come out soon). His command of the English language is better than most native speakers I know, and he sounds like you or me.
Korea lost a great teacher because of ignorant thinking like the post I quoted. |
This begs the question if he is such a good teacher, could he not simply get a job back home (or in the States for that matter?) |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
This begs the question if he is such a good teacher, could he not simply get a job back home (or in the States for that matter?) |
I know this teacher as well. Yes he could work in any country - the man is brilliant. However he chose to come to Korea because he wanted to learn more about the Moonies (his religion) |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: |
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I once had a conversation with a couple women in a guesthouse in Seoul. One was Dutch & had a sparkling clear command of english, the other was Scottish & near impossible to understand. You can guess which of the two was entitled to teach here.
That said though, how else would the govt go about testing native-like ability? Short of setting up a capable screening committee (fat chance), a passport from an english-speaking country still seems like a reasonable determiner.
I havent met any Canadian francophones over here pushing broken english on their students. Not to say it couldnt happen, but I cant imagine its high on immigration's radar. |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: |
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May 16th
Funny, that was also the day that immigration also started the sealed transcript rule also.
Why did they wait so long to implement such idiotic rules
1. What happens if a person only has one set of sealed transcripts and immigrations opens them up. Can that person use them again? no
They have to contact the university again if they want to get another job. That can take days, weeks and in some cases, months. And money for processing and shipping.
2. What happens if a Canadian person living out east can speak perfect English, but yet gets rejected because the permanent residence is not in the English-speaking west.
I honestly think immigrations is now shooting themselves in the foot.
Once the Hogwon association realizes they are losing money on the deal, they will act. It is only a matter of time.
I remember hearing once- the 2 biggest industries that seems to never die out are prostitution and English teaching. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| 2. What happens if a Canadian person living out east can speak perfect English, but yet gets rejected because the permanent residence is not in the English-speaking west. |
This is not not not not true.
Transcripts, yeah, I think that's true. |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulo wrote: |
As a sidenote - one of the problems I have noticed at Dave's is when it comes to matters of importance where FACTS are needed there are too many OPINIONS on whether the the OP is valid or not. This is extremely unhelpful and just clouds the issue making it difficult for people who actually need the necessary information. |
Well, there are strange characters in the Korean ESL "community" who like to plant "trolls" and start rumours for fun. Or because they have issues. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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TUM wrote:
| Quote: |
Hanson wrote:
Quote:
Even an excellent English speaking Francophone (if French is their 1st language) is about as good as Korean to teach English.
Comments like this one show incredible ignorance. One of the best English teachers I've met in Korea was born in the Netherlands. He lived in the States for 10 years or so (got his green card), and has no discernable accent.
A few years ago, Immigration changed their rules to disallow E-2's for people whose nationalities are from any country other than native English-speaking countries. This Dutch friend ended up not being renewed at my previous uni because of these new Immigration laws, much to the chagrin and dismay of the program and my friend. He has since been unable to land an E-2.
This was a teacher I learned a lot from. He has since written & published 2 books in English (one bio about Hiddink, another about Koreans & their culture, due to come out soon). His command of the English language is better than most native speakers I know, and he sounds like you or me.
Korea lost a great teacher because of ignorant thinking like the post I quoted.
This begs the question if he is such a good teacher, could he not simply get a job back home (or in the States for that matter?) |
Sure he could, but he has 4 kids (all enrolled in Korean schools) and his life is here for now. He has his writing career started and he's "moonlighting" for extra cash. Him going home is not the point, though. He has a PhD and could teach anywhere else in the world. The point is: Why can't he teach here? He's more qualified than 95% of us here. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 3:30 am Post subject: yes |
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| lastat06513 wrote: |
May 16th
Funny, that was also the day that immigration also started the sealed transcript rule also.
Why did they wait so long to implement such idiotic rules
1. What happens if a person only has one set of sealed transcripts and immigrations opens them up. Can that person use them again? no
They have to contact the university again if they want to get another job. That can take days, weeks and in some cases, months. And money for processing and shipping.
2. What happens if a Canadian person living out east can speak perfect English, but yet gets rejected because the permanent residence is not in the English-speaking west.
I honestly think immigrations is now shooting themselves in the foot.
Once the Hogwon association realizes they are losing money on the deal, they will act. It is only a matter of time.
I remember hearing once- the 2 biggest industries that seems to never die out are prostitution and English teaching. |
I think the biggest issue with living in Quebec is what language you received your education in. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| I think the biggest issue with living in Quebec is what language you received your education in. |
I beg to differ once again.
The biggest issue (with regards to esl teaching) would be proficiency in English. If a quebecer was raised in French but is fluent in English then these is no problem in my book. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Well, there are strange characters in the Korean ESL "community" who like to plant "trolls" and start rumours for fun. Or because they have issues. |
Damn you, Lemon. Watch your Canadian back. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: yes |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think the biggest issue with living in Quebec is what language you received your education in. |
I beg to differ once again.
The biggest issue (with regards to esl teaching) would be proficiency in English. If a quebecer was raised in French but is fluent in English then these is no problem in my book. |
So I could teach here even if my entire education was received in Arab? I don't think so. |
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