Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Nick]

After taking peoples advise I sent an email to the recruiter saying that it was against the law to only offer seven days holiday and for dismissal to be only two weeks by Korean law. I asked her for the email addresses of some teachers at the school and within a few minutes had a reply saying the director had changed his mind and there was no longer a job opportunity. I think the lady was scared that I would tell the current teachers that they should be getting a better deal by law....very amusing how the director suddendly changed his tune.

Nick

[Gord]

The dismissal with only two weeks notice is a falacy. You can be dismissed with a "go home" and zero warning if you have worked less than six months, for example.

What you did was come across as hostile and not worth working with. There are more teachers than jobs, thus they can pick and choose who they want. Nobody wants someone who is complaining and being confrontational before being hired.

Plus it was unlikely you were engaged in exclusive negociations. Because you were dragging your feet, they would have offered the job to other people. Someone who asked all the questions during the first coversation and decided to take the job with a short consideration period.

When you applied for a job back in your home country, would you hum and haw for a week while telling the business owner "facts of law" that were not true and then still expect them to wait for you to decide if you wanted the job? Of course not.

[Austin]

Gord,

I had to laugh when I read the last bit of your post, because it is so true.


Too many do not understand how they come across to their potential employers. Can you imagine any reasonable employer wanting to hire a person that spouts out legal problems within a contract. As you said, they are only asking to be overlooked for the job.

Thank you for being a speaker of truth and reality on this forum.

SCSA

[PatrickSiheung]

Well I didn't read all the replies (I'm lazy right now) so forgive me if this has already been said.

First, your contract:
Definitely don't sign it =( Minimum you should be shooting for 2 million won a month.
They aren't giving you enough vacation days. If you read the hagwon report...http://www.hagwonreport.com/Sites/ST20281/PG25039.asp
You'll see that all employees are entitled to 1 paid vacation day a month. That's 12 days for the year. Of course, if your contract offers the 12 and allows you to maybe take a few within the same month, I wouldn't debate that =)

Your hours.... 120 hours a month. This is the same as my contract. However 2-10pm everyday isn't 120hours a month. Just so you know, most schools count by minutes of class contact time. That's 50 mins for every class hour. Furthermore, the hours you spend ON-SITE will not be counted. I mean look at your time. 2pm-10pm. That's 8 hours... multiply that by 5 days a week and 4 weeks a month (roughly) That's 160 hours a month. Far cry from 120 hours huh?

Some things I wish I had known when I first chose my contract:

Make sure your contract states that you DO NOT have to spend more than 1 or 2 hours on site, when you don't have classes. Some prep time is understandable. But when you don't have classes from 5-7pm... you're going to want to leave for dinner or something. You don't want to sit at the school with screaming kids taking away from your "break" So I wish my contract specifically stated that I am free to leave the school when there are no classes to be taught.

Also, get a photograph of your apartment. I got here and I live in a hole in the wall. I'm sure everyone has to live in a shitty place their first time out, but if you can get some sort of garauntee that you'll be living in a nice, CLEAN place... do whatever you have to do.

Notice of Termination: Your contract says they can terminate you immediately.... NONSENSE. Korean Labour law clearly states that 30 days notice is to be given to the employee. This notice can only be waved if the employee is a physical threat to the students/teachers/director... or if you seriously impede their business. Not likely unless you go to school carrying a big butcher knife.

2-10pm is a long 8hours. Believe me. Make sure your contract gives you a garaunteed break time. I suggest 1 hour from say 5-6pm. You will need this hour to eat and relax. You can get damn hungry without proper time to eat dinner.

If you don't want to teach kindergarten. Have it in your contract!! Make sure it says that you will NOT be required to teach kindergarten.

Sick Days! You're teaching kids... Korea is polluted and dirty as hell... you're going to get sick. Make sure you have a lot of sick days. I only had 3 and I'm kicking myself I've been coughing for a month.

Anyway, if you're not prepared to work 120 hours of classroom time (This is a LOT) have a much smaller time in your contract. I would suggest about 6000 min a month. That's about 100 hours. When you include your prep time... that's plenty. A lot of jobs teach even less. Oh how I envy them!!!

Anyway good luck and be sure EVERYTHING is in your contract. You can't trust any hagwon owner. No matter how pleasent they seem... they are business people and you're their b@tch.

EDIT:

Ok, now I read some of the replies. First, who cares if he was coming off as confrontational. When looking for a job, a job seeker has every right to question the employer. If you don't... if you're stupid and just accept whatever bull the employer tries to pull on you, you'll only end up with problems.
Perhaps though you shouldn't question the employer... just say "no thanks, and NEXT!"

"but they...didn't complain about this before...

I guess you have first time to face contract of school of Korea...so you might be confused."

That is indeed a typical Korean response. Obviously the person that wrote this note is Korean and NOT looking out for your best interests. Also, don't be so quick to trust the recruiter either. Remember, they don't make money until they place you somewhere. Most don't care where you end up. If something doesn't feel right to you, don't listen to the them if they try and tell you 'this is standard' or 'this is normal practice in Korea.' It's all BS.

Talk to some teachers that are already there. FOREIGN teachers too. If the school won't allow that... pass on it. There are plenty of jobs out there.

[Nick]

Hey Gord,

By asking questions you don't get yourself into trouble with contracts like other people may. So, I should have signed the contract anyway and not asked any further questions. By telling them that they are breaking the law in regards to holiday pay might help other people get a better deal in the future.

What they are doing is against the law and I have every right to question it. If you were going for a job in your home country and they said that you get 7 days holiday a year when you know the minimum is 4 weeks then you wouldn't question it?

Anyone mate you sound like a bit of a turkey who thinks he's the big worldwide traveller and knows all about life in Korea.

[Gord]

[cubase]

Calm, Gord. Watch your blood sugar.

[igotthisguitar]

>. Gordo ...

Here's a link to a related "NEW" thread i just started up. Perhaps you'd like to pop by, give it a look & maybe even offer some feedback. Signing skewed ( so we're screwed ) contracts from half way across the world is downright dodgy.

For experienced teachers, it's time more of us began presenting our own reasonable set of fair & just terms of employment
Hey, believe it or not, hey DO negotiate in this country

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=5545

A $300,000 deposit right off the bat ??? DON'T DO IT !!!

They likely can't even pay their school's current utility bills I've in fact never heard of anything like this.

There are plenty of schools you can work at in Korea. Simply take your time in finding the one best suited for you

[PatrickSiheung]

Nick didn't create any libel at all. I don't remember him mentioning the name of the school, it's location, or any other such information.
How can he be charged with libel?

Get off your high horse

[Nick]

Hey Gord,

When you haven't worked in Korea before it is easy to make mistakes and I'm just trying to make sure I don't do things the wrong way.No I havent been to Koea before but have no doubt travelled to areas in the world that you don't have an insight into. You may have been in Korea and been there and done that but don't act like an arrogant know it all just because you have lived in Korea longer than others and think you are a book of knowledge on all matters.
You must have had a stage when you first arrived in Korea and didnt know how everything worked. You seem to have forgotten that!!

Thanks for the advise from others and the information has been very useful.

Im currently looking at other contracts and now know what to look out for

Take care
Nick

[gypsyfish]

A piece of 'advise', I don't know what your resume looks like, but, Dude, you may need to check the spelling. That may be why they filled the job.

I'm with gord, people come to Korea, or send resumes that are crap, dictate terms that are unreasonable and then act surprised when they don't get the job. That, or blame the Korean who has something against them. I've seen resumes that look like the before example I use when I teach how to write a resume. I've seen people come to interviews dressed in shorts. I've even seen people discuss the prices of renting women in different parts of SEA when talking with potential employers.

As far as the contract is concerned, it's not great - I've seen better and worse - but, unless you are Peter Watcyn-Jones, Michael Swan, Jill Hadfield, or Jeremy Harmer, to tell a potential employer what they are doing wrong is not smart thinking.

Checking with people who work at the school is a better idea than relying on some of the advice you get here. That's what I would advise, anyway.