Korean Job Discussion Forums

[blunder1983]

Hi guys,

I've come here after completing a Trinity TESOL course and teaching upper intermediates and advanced level students for 2 weeks.

I'm in week 2 and put together a simple lesson about the family for this week (i only do individual 2 lessons in a week ). Now I'm looking to plan my lesson for next week.

I'm really unsure about all this and I'm really questioning the value of a TESOL cert. I know its all water under the bridge now but I think that they are kind of pointless. I busted a gut on the course and was doing it full time for a month (so money spent for the course and travel and money lost for not working) and I was never taught how to use a text book to teach or how to develop a curriculum etc. etc. I know there is only so much they can tell you but really, how useful is it in the big wide world???????

My advice to newbies is to save yourself a lot of money buy a good textbook and use boggles world and daves a lot.

[JacktheCat]

Your TEFL course didn't teach you how to use a textbook and design a cirriculum?

Some of the most useful stuff I pulled out of my CELTA course were the lectures on how to work around bad textbooks and how to design a cirriculum with limited resources and materials. (perfect for Korea)

A TEFL course generally wouldn't do much for your hiring status or your initial salary in Korea (though it did bump me up to a higher salary bracket in my high school gig), but it will make you a better and much more knowledgable teacher.

You get out of a TEFL course what you put into it.

[blunder1983]

Well I put a LOT of work in, but it sounds like you had a better rounded course, we had NOTHING on curriculum and 1 hr on books, looking at them and commenting on different sections. That was it.

......

[the_beaver]

A TESOL certificate is one of those things I always meant to get around to. While not having one hasn't seemed to hold me back, it would be nice to have at least one qualification for teacher English.

[sheba]

TESOL - Teacher of English to Speakers of Other Languages.

And thats just it - it trains you to teach, not design a teaching curriculum. My course was great - it gave me a lot of confidence, and showed me how to create a lesson out of nothing. I think if you have no teaching experience and no teaching degree, then TESOL or the equivalent is the way to go!!

[turtlepi1]

um...isn't the Trinity one of the certs that is actually comparable with the CELTA? That was my understanding at least.

Not quite sure what that has to do with the OP's question but I am curious.

[blunder1983]

Yeah in england at least Trinity is regarded on par with CELTA.

i suppose it must have helped in the lesson confidence thing, i guess as thats passive I don't appreciate the bonus as much.

[Derrek]

In my opinion, they're all worthless for the money unless you REALLY need to learn how to teach. If that's your goal, why not attend a University or Full-time teachers' college?

CELTA, TRINITY -- best of the crap you probably don't need, and are considered "reputable" because they are the oldest out there. Why else would any operation be franchised other than to make money? Why not only offer the course at Cambridge? It's all a money-making scheme created to make money off of fear.

Only get a TEFL if it's required for a pay raise, or if you want a fake edge over other applicants. Yes, they might help you get a job (for now) but that's only because Korea doesn't yet realize how much of a farce the whole TEFL Certification system is.

CELTA, TRINITY, TEFL whatever... for the money, I don't consider it a good investment, but unfortunately, I am forced to do SOMETHING. So I'm going to find the cheapest darned course out there that meets the requirements and just do that.

CELTA, TRINITY: They also follow British English -- not North American rules. If I want a job teaching in an Ameircan school in the USA, I need a full degree -- not some quickie certiifcate approved by a defacto British authority/club.

The "crediting authorities" used by CELTA and TRINITY are England-based, and DE FACTO, and aren't special compared to a full semester University course, in my opinion.

For those of you who need to review what that word means: DE FACTO: Exercising power or serving a function without being legally or officially established.

Many of the "crediting authorities" are nothing more than a club a company can join -- then they pay to use the logo.

If you're a new teacher with no experience, then the TEFL courses can be most useful to you. Courses like CELTA, TRINITY, and other 3 to 5 week intensive on-site courses are EXPENSIVE ways to get experience you may not even need. The thing that irks me is that these courses are also making money on the Hagwon end -- provding classes for students where YOU the TEACHER are actually PAYING the company to TEACH their students.. and the students are paying the company, too. Take the "non-profit" mess from their websites with a grain of salt. A course like TEFLInternational doesn't charge 3.4 million won for a 4 week intensive course without someone making money off of it!

Otherwise, I keep reading online posts on Daves and elsewhere from people who considered it to be a waste of time and money.



Please read the following, found here on EFL Law:
http://www.efl-law.com/Tesol_Certificates.html



"There is no world Accrediting Authority to say which TESOL/TEFL course is good or bad. The British Council is a defacto accrediting authority.

ANYONE can open a web site and offer a TESOL CERTIFICATE course - some apparent legitimate courses are operating out of Russia for example.

A recent practice to hit the TEFL industry is the on-line TESOL certificates, which, whilst some companies offer professional courses run by well experienced and qualified staff, others are run by those who have discovered how easy it is to make U.S. $200-500 by offering a TEFL/TESOL Certificate Course on-line. Some course are run by persons who have no qualifications, no genuine interest in promoting the TEFL industry, and whose only ability is to generate misleading auto generated responses to questions and e-mail's followed by a glossy certificate of achievement.

We would recommend that any one who is contemplating spending any money on a TESOL/TEFL certificate make inquiries as to whether the company offering the Course is a Legal Entity or a Scam. You should also determine if that certificate is accepted by the Governmental Education Authority of the country you wish to teach in. Few countries require this certificate for you to teach there.

Before undertaking any course, ask the question:-

(a) Is this course really necessary {a few EFL/ESL countries do require a recognized certificate}
(b) Is the Certificate recognized in the country I am going to?
(c) Is the Certificate recognized or even required by my prospective employer?
(d) Am I buying a Certificate for the sake of having one, or am I learning something practical that will help me teach and advance my skills.
(e) Does the course have an ironclad money back guarantee should you decide to withdraw or find the course to be substandard.

In most cases, you will find that if you have a University degree, you do not need the Certificate as you will get on the job training - but confirm this with your employer to be.

Canada.

The following information is very important if you are living in Canada and plan on doing a TESOL Course.

In Canada, quite a few of the less reputable training programs assure prospective students of their bona fides by stating that they are "recognized" by a federal government department called Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC). This very rudimentary form of "recognition" assures students of nothing except the ability to claim tuition as a tax write-off, and if they're eligible for unemployment insurance-funded job training, the ability to get their tuition subsidized if the program is full-time. Programs at Canadian universities are also recognized by HRDC; it's a status taken so much for granted that most reputable post secondary institutions don't think to mention it unless asked. If a TEFL program that can legally claim HRDC recognition does not meet national or provincial TESL association accreditation standards, it does not give the student any advantage in the Canadian job market.

Every year, a lot of Canadians complete inadequate TEFL programs that draw them in by advertising HRDC recognition."

[Goro-chan]

I did a CELTA years ago. It was darned hard work (!!) but was really interesting at the same time.

However I don't think it has been of any use to me because the course was all about how to teach adults, and I've basically taught kids ever since!

Especially in Korea I don't think it is such a useful investment, but if you want to teach in an English-speaking country (England, Australia, New Zealand, not sure about the others) then you usually need some sort of qulaification to get a job.

[SuperHero]

I completely 100% disagree with Derrek. It is helpful and useful. While it won't make you a stellar teacher, it will give you a foundation to understand why your teaching works or doesn't work. Also how could you possibly go wrong when you are getting evaluated on your classroom teaching - you get immediate feedback taht you can incorporate into your lessons the very next day.

[tomato]

One caveat, however:

You will learn a lot that flies in the face of Korean tradition.

Speaking only English in the classroom?
Encouraging the students to converse in English?
Using a variety of songs, games, picture books, and other materials?
Staying on the same grammar point until it is learned thoroughly?
Using gross motor stimuli?
Try explaining any of this to a Korean!

Since I wouldn't do things the Korean way, my director once tried to fire me, but she couldn't find a replacement.

But then she herself took a TESOL course. To her amazement, her professor told the class the same things that I tried to tell her.
Then she apologized profusely.

But did that change her own teaching style?
Not in the least!
You see, she has come up with a good rationalization:
"I'm experienced in living and working in Korea, so I know what works best for Korean students."

The next time she runs that line on me, I'll ask, "How do you know? I've never seen you try anything else."
I'll report back what she says.
(Probably "You're fired!")

[the_beaver]

[gypsyfish]

[quote="Derrek"] ... CELTA, TRINITY: They also follow British English -- not North American rules. If I want a job teaching in an Ameircan school in the USA, I need a full degree -- not some quickie certiifcate approved by a defacto British authority/club. ...

Not true. When I took my CELTA, I asked the British head trainer if I would have problems because I was the victim of an American public education and he said, that all I needed to do was make sure that my dictionary was an American English one to make sure that my phonetic spellings were correct American English spellings. My trainers were from the UK, USA, Australia, and Canada, so we had a variety of "Englishes" being spoken.

I agree that the CELTA is less useful for getting jobs in the USA, but it's more and more requested in other parts of the world, including Asia (though, except for university jobs, not in Korea).

If you're a new teacher with no experience, then the TEFL courses can be most useful to you. Courses like CELTA, TRINITY, and other 3 to 5 week intensive on-site courses are EXPENSIVE ways to get experience you may not even need. Before undertaking any course, ask the question:-

(a) Is this course really necessary {a few EFL/ESL countries do require a recognized certificate}
(b) Is the Certificate recognized in the country I am going to?
(c) Is the Certificate recognized or even required by my prospective employer?
(d) Am I buying a Certificate for the sake of having one, or am I learning something practical that will help me teach and advance my skills.
(e) Does the course have an ironclad money back guarantee should you decide to withdraw or find the course to be substandard.

Again, I disagree. I had a TESOL certificate and had been teaching for five years when I took the CELTA, and still learned some things. Granted I was doing most of what was in in the course and some of it is intuitive, but the CELTA teaches you to teach grammar (something that most native teachers can't do). How many teachers confuse "Does anyone have any questions?" with a real comprhension checking question? A lot. Do I plan every class as meticulously as I did my CELTA classes? No, but even so, my lesson plans are much better than before I took the course. It's a practical teaching course, light on theory and heavy on techniques that can be used in class. The questions (except for 'e') you pose are excellent and should be considered. I suggest that the most important is 'd' and I'd say that yes, it is practical.

CELTA even helps if all you teach are 'conversation courses', and we all know that little is expected in them.

[Derrek]

Again, if you want to be a qualified teacher, take a real class and get a real degree from a real University. Otherwise, you're just some guy with a certificate who paid a lot of money for a quickie education including some classroom pointers. You brushed-up on your grammar? Good for you. Did you need to pay $1,500 plus room and board and plane flight to do that?

Of course you're going to get SOMETHING out of it... but is it needed? Is it worth that much money?

And I 100% disagree with using only English in the classroom. I can't stress this enough.

I use little bits and pieces of Koreans to keep the interest of my students peaked, and to help along those who are just not getting it. I don't use it constantly -- just enough.

When I've studied Korean at Korean schools, they used some English too (even though this was against school policy). If they hadn't, I would have been lost, lost, lost immediately.

My high school and University German professors used both English and German in the classroom. Were they wrong?

[sheba]

Teaching is not a career I want to persue... and I think this applies for many people. I enjoy teaching, I am planning on teaching for a few years... but Im not going to go to university for 3 or 4 years and spend $30,000 to become a registered teacher. And at that, you have to teach at least 2 of the first 5 years out of uni (in our own country) to even register as a teacher.

For someone like me, who has no experience with teaching and does not want to spend the rest of my life (or a big portion of it) as a teacher, I think a TEFL/TESOL/ESL certificate is very useful for both the employer and employee. (Provided its a decent course).

I think there should be some kind of certification/registration of courses available so that we arent wasting our money on useless courses, and so employers know the course we did will be beneficial, and I believe that at a minimum, teachers should either have a teaching degree or a TESOL certificate (scaled pay accordingly). That being said, I also believe the demand for teachers is so high, and so many hogwans are so shady, that this will never become a reality!!! not for a looong time anyway!

But thats just my opinion....