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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Alias wrote: |
| Some Koreans seem to believe that Korean resistance fighters defeated that Japanese during WWII. |
Virtually every Korean I've talked to about it believes exactly that. I always ask why the Japanese left in 1945. They either don't have a reason or do but don't want to tell me. Then I ask, what other major world events occurred in 1945? Again, no response.  If I say the US kicked Japan's ass and told them to get the *beep* out of Korea, though, I hear choruses of "No, no, no, no...." But they still don't give me a reason the Japanese decided to go home.
So I too am amazed that, despite having accomplished so much, Koreans insist they are a poor and victimized people. When I say they have the 11th-largest economy, they say there are still poor people or want to know what the gap is between them and the 10th economy.  But it just can't last forever. There's already an enormous generation gap between our students, increasing numbers of whom are studying abroad, and (younger) co-workers, and the old guard in power. When that transistion occurs you will see a Korea with a very different attitude. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
| Alias wrote: |
| Some Koreans seem to believe that Korean resistance fighters defeated that Japanese during WWII. |
Virtually every Korean I've talked to about it believes exactly that. |
Of course if you ask the French, they're pretty certain the Germans left France because of the .01% of the population that resisted the Germans and some Free French stragglers. The english speaking world liberated France you say? |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone who doubts the above should just visit Independence Hall in Cheonan and see how the end of the Pacific War vis-a-vis Korea is explained. |
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JacktheCat
Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
Anyone who doubts the above should just visit Independence Hall in Cheonan and see how the end of the Pacific War vis-a-vis Korea is explained.
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Do they still have that exhibit at the Independance Hall that used phrenology to show how Koreans are intellectually superior to the other "races"? |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| JacktheCat wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
Anyone who doubts the above should just visit Independence Hall in Cheonan and see how the end of the Pacific War vis-a-vis Korea is explained.
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Do they still have that exhibit at the Independance Hall that used phrenology to show how Koreans are intellectually superior to the other "races"? |
They did last fall. |
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Joseph Fitzgerald
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| I would like to see that (for a laugh). Does anyone have any pics? |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| JacktheCat wrote: |
| [Do they still have that exhibit at the Independance Hall that used phrenology to show how Koreans are intellectually superior to the other "races"? |
Wow, I went in January and totally missed it. The Hall is a pretty big place though. Where was it? |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Hater Depot"]
| Alias wrote: |
| If I say the US kicked Japan's ass and told them to get the *beep* out of Korea |
The US didn't tell Japan to get out of Korea. The Japanese left to protect the motherland. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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It seems to me that many Europeen countries' populations have forgiven Germany for things that happened 60-65 years ago. Just like our new pope, most German soldiers were forced to go Hitler's way. People in Europe (and dare I say around the world) have forgiven Germany and realize that today's German population have nothing to do with Hitler's regime.
Why can't Koreans do the same? |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="the_beaver"]
| Hater Depot wrote: |
| Alias wrote: |
| If I say the US kicked Japan's ass and told them to get the *beep* out of Korea |
The US didn't tell Japan to get out of Korea. The Japanese left to protect the motherland. |
At the Cairo Conference of 1943 the Allies pledged to defeat Japan and liberate Korea. After the war the US forced Japan to leave all territory it had acquired illegitimately.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Conference
Or should my sarcasm detector be taken in for repairs? |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanson wrote: |
It seems to me that many Europeen countries' populations have forgiven Germany for things that happened 60-65 years ago. Just like our new pope, most German soldiers were forced to go Hitler's way. People in Europe (and dare I say around the world) have forgiven Germany and realize that today's German population have nothing to do with Hitler's regime.
Why can't Koreans do the same? |
No, the majority of Germans were very much behind the whole Hitler fanatacism thing. Up until the war, he did a lot of things to bring Germany out of the poverty and mess left over after WW1. Germans from that time period remember this side of it, although they dare not talk about it. There was one lady in my home city who was very old, and lived in Germany during that time. My friend sold insurance to her. He was shocked to hear her say, "That Hiter... he was a good man."
Hitler gave Germany a lot, but what he stood for cost Germany (and the world) a lot more. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
| Or should my sarcasm detector be taken in for repairs? |
No, don't repair. I've been trying to find the book where I read it, but I can't. Anyway, it was a book talking about the Orange Plans and coming around the reasons for dropping A-bombs on Japan and it discussed how Japanese troops from quite a few areas went back to Japan to defend the island. You're right -- I was thinking about actual soldiers. |
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| In german grammar schools they practice oratory based on Adolf's style. They revere his style, andd he is and always will be the role model. |
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seungwun
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanson wrote: |
It seems to me that many Europeen countries' populations have forgiven Germany for things that happened 60-65 years ago. Just like our new pope, most German soldiers were forced to go Hitler's way. People in Europe (and dare I say around the world) have forgiven Germany and realize that today's German population have nothing to do with Hitler's regime.
Why can't Koreans do the same? |
There's a fundemental difference between what Germany did to Europe and what Japan did to Korea. What made the Germans so horrible was the fact that they tried to kill off all the Jews. What they did to the Jews in the concentration camps was not what they did to the rest of Europe. Have the Jewish community forgiven Hitler and the Nazi? I THINK NOT. In the same way, Japan attacked and oppressed the Koreans for decades, raping our mothers, sisters, and daughters, forcing us to forsake our heritage, language, and culture, and killing everyone as they pleased, conducting unthinkable tortures and experiments. Have you ever heard of the "Rape of Nanjing"? Think of that, which took place in six weeks, and apply it for decades. Could YOU forgive? And lastly, until very recently, unlike Germany, Japan had never made any FORMAL apologies for their actions. I know that the Japanese Prime Minister recently apologized, so give Korea some time for the apology to sink in. Of course, many Koreans believed the apology was strictly to get voted into the Security Council of the UN. But who knows, give it time. The deeper the wound, the longer it'll take to heal. And Korea only recently were given a band-aide to place over the wound. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| seungwun wrote: |
| And lastly, until very recently, unlike Germany, Japan had never made any FORMAL apologies for their actions. I know that the Japanese Prime Minister recently apologized, so give Korea some time for the apology to sink in. Of course, many Koreans believed the apology was strictly to get voted into the Security Council of the UN. But who knows, give it time. The deeper the wound, the longer it'll take to heal. And Korea only recently were given a band-aide to place over the wound. |
"Most Japanese think, 'We've apologized 17 times and paid compensation at the government level, so how can you keep asking us to apologize?' When you look at it from the position of Koreans, you get the feeling that the measures were vague expressions Japan was compelled to use rather than genuine apologies or reflection. But that could be because there's a cultural difference between Koreans, who tend to clearly express their feelings, and the Japanese, who don't."
A Lesson From Korean-Japanese Couples
Chosun Ilbo (May 19, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200505/200505190013.html
Masao Okonogi, a political science professor at Keio University, said, "In order to resolve the conflicts, we have to learn to overcome the past." Gong Ro-myung, a former Korean foreign minister, said the 1965 Korea-Japan Treaty should be studied more in-depth. Although controversial, the 1965 Korea-Japan Treaty brought an end to 14 years of continuous discussion between the two countries. The Korean government accepted around $800 million in grants and loans from Japan, much of which was used as seed money for industrial development.
Korea-Japan experts attempt to smooth relations
by Bae Young-dae, JoongAng Ilbo (June 3, 2005)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200506/02/200506022209379739900090409041.html
Japan's Apology
http://johtwc.at.infoseek.co.jp/ref_apo.htm
What is Japan's Record on War Reparations?
http://www.jiyuu-shikan.org/e/faq/faq1.html
Japan-Republic of Korea Joint Declaration
A New Japan-Republic of Korea Partnership towards the Twenty-first Century
Looking back on the relations between Japan and the Republic of Korea during this century, Prime Minister Obuchi regarded in a spirit of humility the fact of history that Japan caused, during a certain period in the past, tremendous damage and suffering to the people of the Republic of Korea through its colonial rule, and expressed his deep remorse and heartfelt apology for this fact. President Kim accepted with sincerity this statement of Prime Minister Obuchi's recognition of history and expressed his appreciation for it. He also expressed his view that the present calls upon both countries to overcome their unfortunate history and to build a future-oriented relationship based on reconciliation as well as good-neighborly and friendly cooperation.
October 8, 1998
(Provisional Translation by the Japanese Government)
Ministry of Foreign Affairs
http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/korea/joint9810.html
Korea's Secret History Before Annxexation by Japan
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=22695 |
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