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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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| How useful is a TEFL cert? |
| Great, don't leave home without one |
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25% |
[ 7 ] |
| Useful, but only bother if it means u'll get more pay |
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51% |
[ 14 ] |
| Useless, save yourself the money and don't bother |
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22% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 27 |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| kimbelina wrote: |
Teaching is not a career I want to persue... and I think this applies for many people. I enjoy teaching, I am planning on teaching for a few years... but Im not going to go to university for 3 or 4 years and spend $30,000 to become a registered teacher. And at that, you have to teach at least 2 of the first 5 years out of uni (in our own country) to even register as a teacher.
For someone like me, who has no experience with teaching and does not want to spend the rest of my life (or a good portion of it) as a teacher, I think a TEFL/TESOL/ESL certificate is very useful. Provided its a decent course.
But thats just my opinion.... |
Just in case you guys missed it, I said, "If you're a new teacher with no experience, then the TEFL courses can be most useful to you."
Please, also note that a major part of my post was copied from EFL-LAW (link provided above). I'd consider this sound information from their site:
"(a) Is this course really necessary {a few EFL/ESL countries do require a recognized certificate}
(b) Is the Certificate recognized in the country I am going to?
(c) Is the Certificate recognized or even required by my prospective employer?
(d) Am I buying a Certificate for the sake of having one, or am I learning something practical that will help me teach and advance my skills.
(e) Does the course have an ironclad money back guarantee should you decide to withdraw or find the course to be substandard. " |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Derrek wrote: |
Again, if you want to be a qualified teacher, take a real class and get a real degree from a real University. Otherwise, you're just some guy with a certificate who paid a lot of money for a quickie education including some classroom pointers. You brushed-up on your grammar? Good for you. Did you need to pay $1,500 plus room and board and plane flight to do that?
Of course you're going to get SOMETHING out of it... but is it needed? Is it worth that much money?
And I 100% disagree with using only English in the classroom. I can't stress this enough.
I use little bits and pieces of Koreans to keep the interest of my students peaked, and to help along those who are just not getting it. I don't use it constantly -- just enough.
When I've studied Korean at Korean schools, they used some English too (even though this was against school policy). If they hadn't, I would have been lost, lost, lost immediately.
My high school and University German professors used both English and German in the classroom. Were they wrong? |
Weren't you looking at mail order TEFL certificates just a couple of days ago? From what you've written here it's seems to me that you must want the cert to improve your job situation and not your teaching. Fine. You're not the first and won't be the last.
But for a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about, you've got a lot of opinions. University degrees are heavy into theory and not as practical. Many director's of studies will choose the certificate holder over the MA holder because of that.
Was it worth the money? Yes. I have a job at a university where I get a butt load of paid vacation. Since I only have a BA, I probably wouldn't have gotten it without the CELTA. I did it here in Seoul, so it cost me @$1800 US at the time, but I didn't have any unusual living expenses that month, thanks for the concern.
Don't be so glib about brushing up on grammar when we have 'teachers' on this board that don't understand the difference between will and be going to. The CELTA is part of my on-going education, not a month-long quickie education - but at least I see it as education, not a piece of paper to use as eyewash to get a job.
Go play with your hedgehog. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I would like to say that I agree 100% with what gypsyfish said. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The thing that irks me is that these courses are also making money on the Hagwon end -- provding classes for students where YOU the TEACHER are actually PAYING the company to TEACH their students.. and the students are paying the company, too. |
I can't speak for BC in Seoul, but at the centre where I took CELTA the practice classes were offered free to the students - a good thing too, since anyone who actually paid to be taught by some of the trainees would demand their money back pretty quick.
Anyway,
From http://englishdroid.com/bystander08.html
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The teachers you know and their ELT qualifications.
* None - strange, chaotic lessons. Teacher talks 99% of the time. Students unimpressed.
* Certificate - teacher knows how to cue a tape. Plays loads of games. Students largely satisfied.
* Diploma - well-crafted, pedagogically sound lessons. Students bored.
* Master's - lessons represent cutting edge of ELT theory. Students write letters of complaint to DOS.
* Doctorate - teacher reads excerpts from thesis to class and grumbles about insulting salary. Students decamp en masse to rival school.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
You should definitely take CELTA Derrek - you'd have a great time discussing your theories on teaching with the trainers! Make sure you show off your Korean in class and don't forget to ask the students 'do you understand?' as much as you can. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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While we are talking about quality of teaching, I would like to ask a question: when a teacher insults everyone he disagrees with on a message board, what does that say about his ability to relate with students?
Last edited by tomato on Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| gypsyfish wrote: |
| Derrek wrote: |
Again, if you want to be a qualified teacher, take a real class and get a real degree from a real University. Otherwise, you're just some guy with a certificate who paid a lot of money for a quickie education including some classroom pointers. You brushed-up on your grammar? Good for you. Did you need to pay $1,500 plus room and board and plane flight to do that?
Of course you're going to get SOMETHING out of it... but is it needed? Is it worth that much money?
And I 100% disagree with using only English in the classroom. I can't stress this enough.
I use little bits and pieces of Koreans to keep the interest of my students peaked, and to help along those who are just not getting it. I don't use it constantly -- just enough.
When I've studied Korean at Korean schools, they used some English too (even though this was against school policy). If they hadn't, I would have been lost, lost, lost immediately.
My high school and University German professors used both English and German in the classroom. Were they wrong? |
Weren't you looking at mail order TEFL certificates just a couple of days ago? From what you've written here it's seems to me that you must want the cert to improve your job situation and not your teaching. Fine. You're not the first and won't be the last.
But for a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about, you've got a lot of opinions. University degrees are heavy into theory and not as practical. Many director's of studies will choose the certificate holder over the MA holder because of that.
Was it worth the money? Yes. I have a job at a university where I get a butt load of paid vacation. Since I only have a BA, I probably wouldn't have gotten it without the CELTA. I did it here in Seoul, so it cost me @$1800 US at the time, but I didn't have any unusual living expenses that month, thanks for the concern.
Don't be so glib about brushing up on grammar when we have 'teachers' on this board that don't understand the difference between will and be going to. The CELTA is part of my on-going education, not a month-long quickie education - but at least I see it as education, not a piece of paper to use as eyewash to get a job.
Go play with your hedgehog. |
1. I never said I was looking at "mail-order" certificates. I was looking at online schools. I see nothing wrong with seeking opinions about other options. Thank-you for putting words in my mouth.
2. I'd like some real-life examples of which schools will hire non-teaching BA + certificate holder over an MA in TESOL or a BA in Education. Which schools are doing this? I'd say the only situation in which they would choose someone with merely a certificate over someone with an MA or Education degree would be where the individual is more liked by the one hiring, for some reason. Maybe someone working there knows the person and recommends them. Or maybe the BA in Education / Masters in TESOL holder has zero experience and the CELTA holder has been teaching for years. Then maybe -- but they certainly would not be picked strictly on qualifications.
3. 90% of the teachers are here to teach conversational English -- not grammar. Koreans know grammar inside and out. What good does it do them? Again, you paid nearly $2,000 to learn some grammar and some other theories on how to make students talk. I'm glad you found it was worth it.
I, however, feel it's not.
Very few jobs in Korea ask for a CELTA. There are a few Universities that do, but as you read the ads, you'll see that BA+CELTA is often the absolute bottom of what they'll accept. Their first preference is a real education degree, or an MA in TESOL.
Based on what you've said, no one needs to bother with anything other than a BA in whatever + the CELTA. *yawn* |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
| While we are talking about quality of teaching, I would like to ask a question: when a teacher insult everyone he disagrees with on a message board, what does that say about his ability to relate with students? |
I'm sorry -- am I bruising some CELTA egos?
I'm not here to blow sunshine up your ass. I'm posting about this to save people some time and money. You don't need a CELTA to teach at 90% of the jobs in Korea. And the pay isn't that different once you've got it, anyway (unless you want to work for a place that makes you work tons of hours -- then you might make 2.5 to 2.6 for starters, or something). If you want to further your education just for kicks, or need it for a certain job, then do it. Some people enjoy that. My mom enjoys taking courses on how to learn rubber-stamping. Big deal.
Otherwise, if you want a real qualification, get an education degree. For those of you who argue that a real education degree is merely 2 to 4 years of "theory" and is not as good as a 1 month CELTA crash-course, then I'd say there are quite a few Western public schools, private schools, and universities who would disagree with you (unless you want to work for $12 to $14 an hour in Canada as a tutor or something). |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:00 pm Post subject: hot air out of your ass |
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| Derrek wrote: |
| I'm not here to blow sunshine up your ass. |
But you have been spending most of your time blowing hot air out of your own ass.
Last edited by SuperHero on Tue May 31, 2005 4:19 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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blunder1983
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, seems I've sparked off quite a debate!
Personally I'm taking the same viewpoint of Derrek. TBH 6 hrs teaching "experience" is less than I did in my first 2 days here, so when you factor that into account your only left with the theory.
However from what I've heard it sounds like my course was the weaker of the 2 "main" UK ones, if CELTA trains you to use books and plan curriculums then I think thats pretty good.
As for grammar, I think that most points can be followed through using a good book, and learning the "grammar lesson structure" took about 30 mins on my course (if anyone wants to know its set scene, introduce 2 examples, work through, introduce slightly "freer" examples and then have an open ended finisher for them to work through)
I was commended in my course for the ability to take on board criticism and alter my teaching accordingly and following their set "guidelines" however since arriving to SK I find their guidelines completely impractical for teaching a class of 40 students so the only MAIN thing i got out of it was taking on board criticism, which i didn't need to study to learn.
I'm not complaining as my course means i get an additional 200k won a month so after a year i will have broken even, if i stay any longer (which looks likely) I will have made a profit.
I agree tho, that to become a qualified teacher you must take the appropriate course (PGCE in England) and while this is useful for those in for the long haul, the vast majority are simply better off winging it.
(i think the poll reflects this sentiment too) |
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Ekuboko
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Location: ex-Gyeonggi
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperHero wrote: |
| I would like to say that I agree 100% with what gypsyfish said. |
Me too!  |
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sheba
Joined: 16 May 2005
Location: Here there and everywhere!
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Derrek wrote: |
Otherwise, if you want a real qualification, get an education degree. |
I have an education degree and it had absolutely nothing to do with teaching. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| kimbelina wrote: |
| Derrek wrote: |
Otherwise, if you want a real qualification, get an education degree. |
I have an education degree and it had absolutely nothing to do with teaching. |
Derrek doesn't have one either, he's just spouting off uninformed opinions which is normal for him on this board. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| blunder1983 wrote: |
I'm not complaining as my course means i get an additional 200k won a month so after a year i will have broken even, if i stay any longer (which looks likely) I will have made a profit.
(i think the poll reflects this sentiment too) |
And this is one of the few valid points I see to taking the CELTA. If it can raise your salary and pay for itself (and then some) in time, then go for it. But how many newbees know they'll stay in Korea long enough to get their money's worth? And if they don't, how useful will it be to them when they go back home?
The sad fact is that the worthless (and not worthless) online degrees carry the same weight as the CELTA to a lot of Korean bosses out there. They don't know the difference. They do, however, know the difference between an education degree and a 100 to 150 hour certificate. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| kimbelina wrote: |
| Derrek wrote: |
Otherwise, if you want a real qualification, get an education degree. |
I have an education degree and it had absolutely nothing to do with teaching. |
Ok, then get an education degree to teach English -- not art. I had hoped that would be obvious.
What is your degree in, and where did you get it? |
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sheba
Joined: 16 May 2005
Location: Here there and everywhere!
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I have a degree in EDUCATION not art or english. And did I mention it had nothing to do with teaching???
It was from the University of Waikato, nz. |
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