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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| If your entire education was in Arabic you would not have gone to school in Canada. Even if it was available, if you lived in Canada you would probably be very fluent in English. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| If your entire education was in Arabic you would not have gone to school in Canada. Even if it was available, if you lived in Canada you would probably be very fluent in English. |
Sometimes I think it is scary that "educated" people post stuff like this.
Have you ever lived in Quebec? What the guy is saying, if you went to a FRENCH elementary/middle/highschool then FRENCH Cecep/University, chances are you shouldn't be teaching ENGLISH.
I lived in Quebec and I knew people who couldnt speak any more English than your typical Korean can...and YES they were living in CANADA. The smaller the town in Quebec (especially in the north) the more likely this is to occur.
So bottom line: if this is true, it is probably a limitation on those who have ONLY studied at French universities.
I doubt if anyone who went to McGill is gonna get denied an E-2. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I doubt if anyone who went to McGill is gonna get denied an E-2. |
Stranger things have happened. We're talking about Korean Immigration here. I don't know of anything for certainty that they wouldn't do. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you honestly think a person from Quebec who can't speak English fluently would even try to get an E2 here. The job would be like water torture. Just like if you had to teach French in Africa, you wouldn't do it if you weren't fluent. |
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plattwaz
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Location: <Write something dumb here>
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
Even an excellent English speaking Francophone (if French is their 1st language) is about as good as Korean to teach English.
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When I did my CELTA course, the students who were the very best teachers in the class - the only 2 to receive 'A' grades in fact -- were not native English speakers, but had grown up in Scandinavia. Both were fantastic teachers because they had spent years in classrooms learning English. As a result, the had much better understanding of grammar than ANY native speaker in the class, and so many more creative, interesting and thorough ways to explain rules, exceptions to rules, etc.
I do think that there are limited ways for Korean immigration to determine who should qualify for a visa, and to be hoenst, I think that because of that, Immigration should keep their nose out of it.
If an academy wants to hire a person who is not a native speaker but speaks well and is qualified in some other way (MATESOL, CELTA, or whatever), should that not be the academy's business?? If the parents/students don't like that the teacher is not a native speaker, then simply don't enrol in the school. Then the academy can sort out for itself what is more profitable. In many cases, I truly think that the native French/Dutch/Danish speaker is a MUCH MUCH better teacher than the random North American 25 year old recent graduate in History who has never spoken a word that wasnt' Enlgish in their entire life. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Couldn't have said it better myself. Well said, plattwaz! |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| plattwaz wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
Even an excellent English speaking Francophone (if French is their 1st language) is about as good as Korean to teach English.
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When I did my CELTA course, the students who were the very best teachers in the class - the only 2 to receive 'A' grades in fact -- were not native English speakers, but had grown up in Scandinavia. Both were fantastic teachers because they had spent years in classrooms learning English. As a result, the had much better understanding of grammar than ANY native speaker in the class, and so many more creative, interesting and thorough ways to explain rules, exceptions to rules, etc.
I do think that there are limited ways for Korean immigration to determine who should qualify for a visa, and to be hoenst, I think that because of that, Immigration should keep their nose out of it.
If an academy wants to hire a person who is not a native speaker but speaks well and is qualified in some other way (MATESOL, CELTA, or whatever), should that not be the academy's business?? If the parents/students don't like that the teacher is not a native speaker, then simply don't enrol in the school. Then the academy can sort out for itself what is more profitable. In many cases, I truly think that the native French/Dutch/Danish speaker is a MUCH MUCH better teacher than the random North American 25 year old recent graduate in History who has never spoken a word that wasnt' Enlgish in their entire life. |
because the government had a problem here before, with the booming ESL market, and they were getting droves upon droves of unqualified people, so they had to set some kind of a minimum of who is allowed a visa and who isn't.
If I were that man in charge of that, the 1st thing I would specify is 'native english speaker'. Absolutely.
Everyone seems to have their own personal experience contrary to what I say, but if you open pandora's box, this place will get flooded with a bunch of stuttering idiots.
Oh yeah, about someone teaching here with Eng as their 2nd language, it certainly happens. My friend's co-worker is a fraud. |
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plattwaz
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Location: <Write something dumb here>
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:54 am Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
they were getting droves upon droves of unqualified people, . |
So in other words, nothing's changed.....?
| Ilsanman wrote: |
| but if you open pandora's box, this place will get flooded with a bunch of stuttering idiots. |
If that's the case, then it seems to me that Pandora's box was opened a long long time ago.... |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| If that's the case, then it seems to me that Pandora's box was opened a long long time ago.... |
Well said  |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:54 am Post subject: Re: yes |
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| plattwaz wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
Even an excellent English speaking Francophone (if French is their 1st language) is about as good as Korean to teach English.
. |
When I did my CELTA course, the students who were the very best teachers in the class - the only 2 to receive 'A' grades in fact -- were not native English speakers, but had grown up in Scandinavia. Both were fantastic teachers because they had spent years in classrooms learning English. As a result, the had much better understanding of grammar than ANY native speaker in the class, and so many more creative, interesting and thorough ways to explain rules, exceptions to rules, etc.
I do think that there are limited ways for Korean immigration to determine who should qualify for a visa, and to be hoenst, I think that because of that, Immigration should keep their nose out of it.
If an academy wants to hire a person who is not a native speaker but speaks well and is qualified in some other way (MATESOL, CELTA, or whatever), should that not be the academy's business?? If the parents/students don't like that the teacher is not a native speaker, then simply don't enrol in the school. Then the academy can sort out for itself what is more profitable. In many cases, I truly think that the native French/Dutch/Danish speaker is a MUCH MUCH better teacher than the random North American 25 year old recent graduate in History who has never spoken a word that wasnt' Enlgish in their entire life. |
I agree with much of what you said. However, we need to remember that many Koreans understand and are able to teach grammar; however, they may not be able to speak English very well. I would prefer to have a teacher that is fluent, or at least nearly fluent, in the target language. Afterall, grammar is a good base for any language, but it definitely isn't the whole ball of wax. Many of us are teaching conversational English, not grammar. Theories are good; yet, just because you have a PhD in education doesn't mean you are necessarily a good teacher. One of the worst math teachers I've ever had was a person with a PhD in mathematics who also had 30 years of teaching experience. I'm glad that your Scandinavian classmates spent many years learning English; I also hope that their speaking ability is sound if they're teaching English. I have nothing against the Quebecois or any of the other French speakers in Canada. I'm from New Brunswick. Although my mother tongue is English, I speak French as well. The only problem I have with the native English or French speakers in my province is when they try to pass themselves off as "bilingual" and I can't understand what they're saying in either language... |
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