|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
|
 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:48 am Post subject: Re: WHAT DID I MISS, AND WAS IT WORTH IT? |
 |
|
| chronicpride wrote: |
| buymybook wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| buymybook wrote: |
| So, should I believe you are credible because you went to the conference? Is Pusan like Vegas? Did ya'll say to one another "what's said here, stays here?" I really haven't heard much about what went down down there, or maybe it was all for show to make us think there are people who support/care. |
I'm not sure where you get the impression that the ppl who went down are coming off elitist or withholding info on what happened. It's been discussed in a main thread, plus 2 other related ones. There were only about 40-50 ppl, if that, in the EFL-Law forum that was going on concurrently with the ESL conference, operating in the larger auditorium. The actual ESL conference, despite some delays due to long presentations, went fairly well as planned. The smaller EFL-Law forum felt more ad-libbed.
The reason why myself and others get pissed when someone comes on here and beaks off about 'getting off your ass in doing something', when many of us did just that, and wanted to engage in healthy discussion and debate about unions and legal recourse with EFL-Law guy, plus Sean Hayes, and other lawyers and fixtures of the ESL community in Korea. I reserve the right, as do others, to lambast any *beep* that comes on here in the fashion that the OP did especially when he couldn't bring his rambunctious passion for his upstart cause down to this meeting. And if by some act of God, one couldn't be there to represent their fiery beliefs, then one should take the time to read what has been said on past threads of what transpired, instead of stepping over it and saying 'no one give me counter-arguments, cuz i don't want to hear it.' The OP had it coming and then some.
Check your PM, re: lawyer contact info |
The problem with the people you mention is that they don't really care. They have been here for years just like "endoftheworld" and are selfish. They only want to get their "name out there" to make money(screw the Foreigner who is broke and in the Korean courts seeking justice). Why can't a supposed Foreign Attorney convince a wealthy Korean law firm to support us Foreign Teachers which would then at the same time improve the English learning education for Korean students. Don't Koreans care for one another just like us Foreign Teachers(HA, HA, HA)!
If they wanted to help they would have done so by now. If they can't, they should be honest in saying so. Why have a meaningless(the tripped hype of beginning a Union) meeting/conference? To get folks like you to spread the "good news" and their name and treat them like they are GOD while the most important thing to them is sucking up to their Korean brothern/BOSSES who pay them each day/week.
If those folks haven't to date persuaded a respectable Korean law firm to support the English Teacher(yes, that means financially=free quick service to those "good teachers" who have been obviously cheated/fired by small hagwons in the 10th and 11th month of contract) while at the same time help Korean students/scare the Korean Hagwons/change laws and illegal practices then why do you go/pay to listen to those folks???
To help the foreign teacher who has been fired in the 10th and 11th month of their contract(like me) by small Hagwons are the folks who certainly deserve some help. That could be a beginning, why can't these people receive help. The Labor Office might rule in your favor but after that your screwed because then the Hagwon owner still doesn't have to pay(fine is cheaper and most Korean Hagwons don't respect the law/labor law).
If you still want your money you have to go sue in court and then Immigration may not allow you to work or grant an E-2 VISA. So, you are discriminated against by Immigration if you chose to stay and fight as suggested by the labor office on a G-1 Visa. What have "we" done wrong??? We certainly can't do much of anything at all without the help of some good and honest people. Obviously, those folds are few and far between here in South Korea!!! Whatever you/me try to do, those same folks will/do simply sit back and laugh. The meeting/conference may have been successful in stirring the pot. |
Your argument doesn't make any sense. Now you are taking shots at the credibility and secret intentions of people like EFL-Law guy who has devoted his time to help others with his website. If you think that they have this selfish, machivellian scheme to market themselves to make money, do you not realize that if Sean and EFL-Law guy were as corrupted as you say they are, that if they really cared so ferociously about money and wanted to swing for the financial fence, they could have a windfall on their hands if they were to lobby for the signatures of every teacher that's being screwed or has been screwed, and put it on a petition and pursue legal financing through deep pocketed political organizations that have foreign labor and private education reform on their platform? Which would then put them on the map in the lucrative legal arena of govt policy and reform?
Besides, your whole secret greed argument is moot. Sean works as a researcher for Korea's Constitutional Court and is not with a private firm, nor is EFL-Law guy who's going to be gradually moving away from his site, to focus on a new project in another area of Asia. For someone that has his own legal crap going on and needs advice, I can't believe you'd spit on the advice and efforts that EFL-Law guy has done for so many teachers with EFL-Law.org and Sean's past moonlighting with his old legal advice site for foreigners. |
I'll requote you again... "Sean works as a researcher for Korea's Constitutional Court and is not with a private firm,
Do you know what that means? He can't help you or me personally even if I paid him. I look at the results of those folks efforts. All I have to do is see how things don't/haven't improved through the supposed help of whomever.
"nor is EFL-Law guy who's going to be gradually moving away from his site, to focus on a new project in another area of Asia."
And for that fella, I've not received responses on more than one occasion. Whom do they help when no response is made after stating that if you/me or whomever contact them that they will respond. I call that a BIG FAT LIE. And enough with the...they do it for free and you shouldn't expect anything or whatever blah, blah, blah,
A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie, no matter if it's from your friend or foe! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
poof
Joined: 23 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject: current efl-law response |
|
|
It doesn't feel sensible to be posting threads from EFL-LAW on here - maybe it's time these sites come together (???)
But here is the latest comment on the union idea by Mr EFL-LAW:
| Quote: |
efl-law
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 743
Location: Korea
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in the fray ---
The Conference burnt us all out to say the least --- but slowly building momentum.
I got an email from the guys in Taegu/Daejon (they were at the EFL-Law session) and they had started a group. They said they were having Round Two of their next meeting in June (18th) -(can't find it now!!) some one might remember them....
I do know the Korean Gov will do all in its power to stop any Union....(for Teachers) but the day after the Conference we held a post moretm at Lotte (Sean Hayes-myself -one other) to discuss the next and best moves.... Sean believed we needed a Congress which included ALL foreigners in Korea -(numbers game) - We will meet in Seoul in two weeks to look at where we go and how etc etc....
On Wednesday I will be making a submission in writing and English (translated similtaneously) that without a Union we need Government Funding to set up a 24/24 help line -and manned office ---
I think by the end of June we might have a few tangible ideas to toss around -- it will take time but we figure with APEC coming and we may make a submission to them on this pont -we might get somewhere....
|
So, we here that some folks in Daegu and Daejon have their own session going on.
I and some friends have some session going on in Seoul.
Mr EFL-Law has some projects of his own - and isn't the 24 hr hotline a great idea?
It seems that it's going to take fragments of individuals to get something rolling. Maybe we will all come together some day.
I have to add that I was surprised by the vitriol in the many pm's I got in response to this posting. Some of you had constructive comments to make, but some just came across in the form of hate mail. I'm sorry that the sentiment is such. But will add that I and my group will continue to put pressure on those who make the decisions.
But as EFL-LAW guy points out, it would be a lot more effective if he/us had the backing of the entire teaching community. - Sadly from the responses I got to this posting, I think he isn't going to get the support that he needs. Heads down everybody. It's a real shame. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: current efl-law response |
|
|
| poof wrote: |
It doesn't feel sensible to be posting threads from EFL-LAW on here - maybe it's time these sites come together (???)
But here is the latest comment on the union idea by Mr EFL-LAW:
| Quote: |
efl-law
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 743
Location: Korea
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in the fray ---
The Conference burnt us all out to say the least --- but slowly building momentum.
I got an email from the guys in Taegu/Daejon (they were at the EFL-Law session) and they had started a group. They said they were having Round Two of their next meeting in June (18th) -(can't find it now!!) some one might remember them....
I do know the Korean Gov will do all in its power to stop any Union....(for Teachers) but the day after the Conference we held a post moretm at Lotte (Sean Hayes-myself -one other) to discuss the next and best moves.... Sean believed we needed a Congress which included ALL foreigners in Korea -(numbers game) - We will meet in Seoul in two weeks to look at where we go and how etc etc....
On Wednesday I will be making a submission in writing and English (translated similtaneously) that without a Union we need Government Funding to set up a 24/24 help line -and manned office ---
I think by the end of June we might have a few tangible ideas to toss around -- it will take time but we figure with APEC coming and we may make a submission to them on this pont -we might get somewhere....
|
So, we here that some folks in Daegu and Daejon have their own session going on.
I and some friends have some session going on in Seoul.
Mr EFL-Law has some projects of his own - and isn't the 24 hr hotline a great idea?
It seems that it's going to take fragments of individuals to get something rolling. Maybe we will all come together some day.
I have to add that I was surprised by the vitriol in the many pm's I got in response to this posting. Some of you had constructive comments to make, but some just came across in the form of hate mail. I'm sorry that the sentiment is such. But will add that I and my group will continue to put pressure on those who make the decisions.
But as EFL-LAW guy points out, it would be a lot more effective if he/us had the backing of the entire teaching community. - Sadly from the responses I got to this posting, I think he isn't going to get the support that he needs. Heads down everybody. It's a real shame. |
Nice little twist of his words to play up your flaccid guilt trip attempt. His actual words were 'Sean believed we needed a Congress which included ALL foreigners in Korea'. Which that exact idea was actually supported by me earlier in this thread to counter your marginalized teacher union approach. If you're going to massage and tweak someone else's words in such a way to use it as a guilt trip, try not to quote the original and untampered statement in the same post. I can't believe that you'd try to take it and spin it right in front of everyone's eyes on the exact post as you quoted his exact wording. The union idea is not the problem. It's the logic and the brains of the guy who's trying to force it down our throats. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
poof
Joined: 23 May 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, Chronic/Bitter Pride, now I'm back ... 
I'm just wondering whether Dave's and EFL-LAW had any notions of ever merging? Can Mr Sperling himself answer this one?
It seems that there are valuable resources on both sites which would seemingly become yet stronger if they came together.
I realise that the two site owners are living on opposite sides of the world, and that board hosting would be an issue, but surely something could be thought of to integrate the two.
What do you think?
Personally, I know of at least 20 employers/recruiters within one month of Dave's advertising that were offering illegal contracts. (I know because I met these employers face to face for a supposed interview.) I accept that Dave Sperling bears no responsibility to the outcome of the ads on his site, but also as a respected figure in the ESL community it also seems a contradiction of sorts that some employers advertising on his site are outright fraudsters, and that only as a seasoned ESL teacher would you be able (perhaps) to identify a shady contract offering. A newbie reading the job ad in the depths of the Canadian Rockies would have no idea that this seemingly charming recruiter is leading him/her to the abyss.
Isn't it about time something was done about this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
poof
Joined: 23 May 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Secondly (if some of you can bear to read a second posting of mine) ...
There has been some good discussion of late on the EFL LAW site about what EFL LAW guy has been doing regards approaching congress with TEFL issues.
I also posted on the site to suggest that whether it may have any effect or not, it may be worth bombarding this particular board (The Ministy of Labour comments in English board) with any issues you have that could be addressed by the MOL :
http://www.molab.go.kr:8787/board/par_list.jsp
I feel that generating momentum and giving a wider exposure to contract issues for foreign teachers in Korea will also give more support to those who seem to single-handedly be doing their bit to do something about reform. A thousand teachers or so posting on their site should arouse some attention from someone, eh? 
I've already posted on the board a general comment. You can enter any password - you don't need to register to submit a post. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| poof wrote: |
. A thousand teachers or so posting on their site should arouse some attention from someone, eh?
. |
I'd like to focus on this part of your post. Ever hear the saying 'be careful what you wish for, it might come true'? We might get a lot of unwanted attention (similar to the attention a certain site did when it posted pictures of foreign males and Korean females cavorting in a nightclub).
Immigration is already getting stricter. See the transcripts threads. Do we really want to give them yet another excuse to be even more exacting (in possible response to a flood of teachers posting on the MOL site)?
Oh yes, one other question. Let's suppose you were successful in setting up some form of 'union'. What would you do about illegal teachers? By this I mean, what would be your official and unofficial policy. Would this be actively discouraged among your members (since your group would be legal, you don't want your members to engage in certain actions) or would it be more or less 'winked' at? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TUM - Good post. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
