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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:01 am Post subject: |
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Hello again, Thaitom!
I caught my director in a whopper this afternoon. I had been teaching Braille and sign languages in all of my classes--well, all of my classes but one.
This has been displeasing the director. According to her, the parents have been complaining. If this doesn't stop immediately, the parents will drop out like flies and put Kim's Language School out of business!
When my 3:30 class came into my room, she came in and said, "No ���� or sign laenggwiji."
I said, "Why? Have the parents in this class been complaining?"
She said yes, the parents in all the other classes have been complaining, but the parents in this class have been especially irate.
How lucky can you get! Out of all the classes in the school, she happened to choose the wrong one! I said, "That's impossible. I haven't been using Braille or sign language in this class."
When it was time for the half-hour switch, Mrs. Kim came in my room again and reasserted her position. If I don't remember teaching Braille and sign language in this class, I must have forgotten.
So I accompanied her to her room and wrote ���� (Braille) and ��ȭ (sign language) on the board. I asked the students, "���� �����п��� ���ڿ� ��ȭ�� �����ƽ��ϱ�?"
Two or three students said, "No."
I said, "See? You thought the whole thing up!"
While I stamped out of the room, Mrs. Kim--if that is her real name--continued to protest her innocence.
I hope you have similar luck. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Tomato, how despicable of you! Not only did you teach those kids Braille and sign language behind the director's back, and then had the temerity to lie and say you didn't! But now we see how wicked you truly are. You brainwashed all the children into lying for you!
(all together, kids... one, two, three) "No, Director.  Tomato Teacher never taught us Braille or sign language."
BTW, does anyone else find this just a really bizarre thing to be arguing about with a hagwon director? I mean, would "Teacher ignores my orders to stop teaching Braille and signing to the children" even make the All-time Top 100,000 Complaints of Hagwon Directors?  |
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jaderedux
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
Hello again, Thaitom!
I caught my director in a whopper this afternoon. I had been teaching Braille and sign languages in all of my classes--well, all of my classes but one.
This has been displeasing the director. According to her, the parents have been complaining. If this doesn't stop immediately, the parents will drop out like flies and put Kim's Language School out of business!
When my 3:30 class came into my room, she came in and said, "No ���� or sign laenggwiji."
I said, "Why? Have the parents in this class been complaining?"
She said yes, the parents in all the other classes have been complaining, but the parents in this class have been especially irate.
How lucky can you get! Out of all the classes in the school, she happened to choose the wrong one! I said, "That's impossible. I haven't been using Braille or sign language in this class."
When it was time for the half-hour switch, Mrs. Kim came in my room again and reasserted her position. If I don't remember teaching Braille and sign language in this class, I must have forgotten.
So I accompanied her to her room and wrote ���� (Braille) and ��ȭ (sign language) on the board. I asked the students, "���� �����п��� ���ڿ� ��ȭ�� �����ƽ��ϱ�?"
Two or three students said, "No."
I said, "See? You thought the whole thing up!"
While I stamped out of the room, Mrs. Kim--if that is her real name--continued to protest her innocence.
I hope you have similar luck. |
Curious are you paid to teach braille and sign language? If you are then your boss was way out of line. If you are there to teach english then I would have fired you on the spot after your little "trick".
Now...with your great accumen with the language and supposed understanding of korean culture, you hauled your boss in front of students and proved her wrong. One wonders, given the nature of this country, if that was such a good idea.
So you proved yourself right. Now what? You have humilated your boss in a public forum (the classroom). Would you be so happy if the situation was REVERSED. I doubt it.
I learned about my third week here in Korea that "parents" usually means "boss". They just don't want to be perceived as the bad guy. It is a face saving method. Like so many things.
Is it honest? ...nope...will koreans change anytime soon?....nope.
I think your glee in humilating your boss is small minded and not particulary forward thinking.
AGAIN, UNLESS YOU WERE HIRED TO TEACH BRAILLE AND SIGN LANGUAGE YOUR BOSS HAS EVERY RIGHT TO TELL YOU NOT TO DO IT.
Personally I think she should have just said "Tomato, I did NOT hire you to teach braille and/or sign language. I appreciate your knowledge of these things and find it admirable. However if you do it again I think you should find a position that suits your needs better. TRANSLATION: DO IT AGAIN YOU'RE FIRED.
Jade |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| jaderedux wrote: |
Personally I think she should have just said "Tomato, I did NOT hire you to teach braille and/or sign language. I appreciate your knowledge of these things and find it admirable. However if you do it again I think you should find a position that suits your needs better. TRANSLATION: DO IT AGAIN YOU'RE FIRED.
Jade |
I agree with this.In the end like it or not we are their employees. If you want to teach language through sign and braille then open up your insiitute.
This sort of stuff wouldn't fly back home why the hell should it fly here? |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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jaderedux wrote:
| Quote: |
Curious are you paid to teach braille and sign language? If you are then your boss was way out of line. If you are there to teach english then I would have fired you on the spot after your little "trick".
Now...with your great accumen with the language and supposed understanding of korean culture, you hauled your boss in front of students and proved her wrong. One wonders, given the nature of this country, if that was such a good idea.
So you proved yourself right. Now what? You have humilated your boss in a public forum (the classroom). Would you be so happy if the situation was REVERSED. I doubt it.
I learned about my third week here in Korea that "parents" usually means "boss". They just don't want to be perceived as the bad guy. It is a face saving method. Like so many things.
Is it honest? ...nope...will koreans change anytime soon?....nope.
I think your glee in humilating your boss is small minded and not particulary forward thinking.
AGAIN, UNLESS YOU WERE HIRED TO TEACH BRAILLE AND SIGN LANGUAGE YOUR BOSS HAS EVERY RIGHT TO TELL YOU NOT TO DO IT.
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Hmmm lots of ASSumptions here arent there!
Considering that the English language has a whole plethora of universal gestures that are accepted globally there is nothing wrong with teaching sign language. It is an accepted kinesthetic method for students that are not audio or visual learners.
The questions to ask should be: are the students learning English? Do they find the lessons interesting? Is it an effective tool?
Proving the boss wrong in front of the students may not have been wise but perhaps it will get him/her off of his back. It will also educate this dumbass Korean that Westerners do not buy into the great bullcrap that is confucionism! Was it wise of his boss to confront him in front of his students?? That is a two way street buddy and if you cant see that then you need to open your eyes!
Considering that the curriculum in 99% of the hogwans is crap. If the poster has covered whatever curriculum assigned and is supplementing with extras then STFU! The dumbass Korean should be thankful they have a teacher that is in there teaching. BUT NOOOOO they have to make up bullcrap stories and tell lies.
Will it ever change? Who knows But if you sit back and let it walk all over you then no it will never change and you have become part of a greater problem than someone teaching sign language to his students! |
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jaderedux
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Considering that the English language has a whole plethora of universal gestures that are accepted globally there is nothing wrong with teaching sign language. It is an accepted kinesthetic method for students that are not audio or visual learners |
Agree completely and I use some but but from the korean tomato wrote it would seem that he is teaching "sign language". I am not a freaking moron of course I use hand gestures and such for visual learners. However I do not use formal sign language.
| Quote: |
| Considering that the curriculum in 99% of the hogwans is crap. If the poster has covered whatever curriculum assigned and is supplementing with extras then STFU! The dumbass Korean should be thankful they have a teacher that is in there teaching. |
If your BOSS SAYS you can't use BRAILLE AND YOU CAN'T USE SIGN LANGUAGE YOU GOT 2 CHOICES....use the crap curriculum they choose or open your own institute and teach your way. Guess what they are paying you. IF YOU WANT TO TEACH ENGLISH USING SIGN LANGUAGE AND BRAILLE open your own freaking institute. Yes much is crap but guess what it is her hogwon.
WTF....you can't do this in the west. If you boss says you have to do A B or C and you want to do D , you have 3 choices .....1. Quit and find somewhere more compatible to your methods. 2. Do it the way the want.
3. Convince your boss (proactively) that your way might work better.
In the west if you drag your boss into a room full of customers and humilate them ...hmmm? How long you think you're going to last.
| Quote: |
| It will also educate this dumbass Korean that Westerners do not buy into the great bullcrap that is confucionism! |
Hmm? Dumbass Korean....nice. Perhaps you should find a culture to live in that you can more easily adapt to. I hate alot of the crap I have to deal with but guess what I get alot more perks and consideration because I can play their game too.
Confucionism...Yep it sucks but YOU ARE NOT IN THE WEST. If they came to your country I suppose you would think it okay for them to whine about our life style and call you a dumbass because you believe the way you do. What a bunch of crap.....who says what ever culture you grew up in is so damn perfect. Like it or not you in their house and sometimes and I do mean sometimes you have to play by their rules. Don't like it? GET the hell out of dodge.
I have been at the same PUBLIC SCHOOL FOR going on 4 years. No one walks on me. Because yes I drew lines early but also made concessions to the culture. For those of you who want to constantly curse the darkness good for you .....wail and moan and fight ...me I prefer to light the candle.
I get my way alot more.
HOGWANS ARE A BUSINESS AND IF THE OWNER SAYS NO BRAILLE NO SIGN LANGUAGE ...IT IS HER HOGWAN ....YOU DON'T LIKE IT... LEAVE find a hogwan that appreciates your talent.
Jade |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yes if the hogwan owner comes in and says "I dont want you to teach this anymore" then fine. It is when they come in and LIE to your face about crap. If they simply went to the teacher and said I dont want you to teach sign language or braille anymore that would be the end of that.
BUT NOOOOOoooo!
They have to make up a lie, parents are complaining", then they have to compound the lie "especially this classroom", then they get caught in their lie.
It is kind of funny the FT is expected to be the professional, be flexible (after all it is their country...which I agree to up to a point), but as you said there are times when you need to draw a line. If the hogwan owners were professional about their business 99% of the bullcrap would disappear. |
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jaderedux
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
Yes if the hogwan owner comes in and says "I dont want you to teach this anymore" then fine. It is when they come in and LIE to your face about crap. If they simply went to the teacher and said I dont want you to teach sign language or braille anymore that would be the end of that.
BUT NOOOOOoooo!
They have to make up a lie, parents are complaining", then they have to compound the lie "especially this classroom", then they get caught in their lie.
It is kind of funny the FT is expected to be the professional, be flexible (after all it is their country...which I agree to up to a point), but as you said there are times when you need to draw a line. If the hogwan owners were professional about their business 99% of the bullcrap would disappear. |
I honestly understand your frustration but sorry, like it or not, lying is part of the game. The hogwan owner wants to save face....it's not me that is the bad guy....it's those mean parents. I agree their round about way of doing things is not what we like or are used to but it is part of the culture. It isn't going to change anytime soon.
99% of that so called bull crap is how business is done here. It is the culture...it sucks but it is and your crappy attitude and tactics are not going to change it. Unless you think you are so damn important that the korean collective is going to slap their forehead and say thank god Grotto and Tomato were here to show us "dumbass" (your words not mine) koreans the error of our ways. 
I do draw lines...but humilating people and full on confrontation doesn't work here and won't anytime soon. The Japanese are the same way. They tell you what you want to hear. They are even more so as harmony is their reason for existence. They will smile and say how much they like you and would rather eat nails than see you again.
While I have some problems mostly I do fine because I know how to get what I want without ticking off every person I come in contact with.....like I said I prefer to light the candle than curse the darkness. Again next time a foreigner complains about your culture I am sure you will be as understanding especially if they are working in said country.
jade the incredulous |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Hello, Grotto!
Thank you for defending me!
Hello, Jade!
Hello, Crazy Lemon Girl!
I appreciate your expressing your thoughts and feelings.
I would discuss the matter here, but I don't want to steal this thread from Thaimon.
I hope I have addressed all of your points of disagreement here:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=560874#560874
All of you are welcome to write back.
Regarding the alleged disagreement in front of the students, I don't think the students ever understood the reason for my asking that question. They came into class today with all sorts of questions about ���� and ��ȭ, but made no mention of the director.
I hope all of you sleep well tonight. |
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seoulmon
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Tomato: you always amaze me with your unique outlook on life. I would have never thought of approaching language that way but the more I think about it, the more I like it.
You know, I've taken a lot of J classes and I've yet seen one teacher approach language teaching creatively. It'd be cool to take one of your classes. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| I hate to be the only one not clapping. Tomatoe, really, if the parents wanted their children to learn sign language then they would have sent them to a sign language academy. Sure, it might be an interesting way to learn English but sign language is universal, therefore they are not really gaining much from it. If I was the director, I would have signed your letter of release and stuck it on your forehead. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:19 am Post subject: |
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hahahhahah sounds like a crock to me!!!
sounds like the owner is in trouble and she thinks its the teachers fault!
WAKE UP!! obvisously she knows nothing of running a business! or an education institute! she lacks motivation skills! and takes everything personally! she would rather listen to the ideas of 10 year olds! than listen to her teachers! only becuase they are paying the bills!
fact is she created the school! she set the curriculum she made the mood
the students dont the teacher? I dont think so! I think the students dont like the school! because its BORING!!! she has no idea what business she is in! she didint make a marketing plan! or did market research! she thought hiring some waegooks and buying some English books was gonna make her rich! THINK AGAIN!!
yep thats right.. I got all that from the email! hahahaah |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jaderedux wrote: |
I learned about my third week here in Korea that "parents" usually means "boss". They just don't want to be perceived as the bad guy. |
Although I totally agree with the first line (which is why I'm impressed by the OP's boss's apparent honesty and professionalism), I'm not sure it's a face saving tactic. In hagwons, the number of students registering is always subject to seasonal changes. Unfortunately, hagwon owners are well aware that many teachers do not know about this. In some cases, they use the opportunity to turn the screws. But, generally speaking, many of them simply start to panic at the thought of earning 500 000 won less per month. For a variety of reasons, they choose to put the blame on the foreign teacher instead of looking at the situation in a logical manner (again, I'm impressed by the OP's boss). Remember, you don't need an MBA or a MEd to own a hagwon and hire a foreigner from halfway around the world. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
Hello, Grotto!
Thank you for defending me!
Hello, Jade!
Hello, Crazy Lemon Girl!
I appreciate your expressing your thoughts and feelings.
I would discuss the matter here, but I don't want to steal this thread from Thaimon.
I hope I have addressed all of your points of disagreement here:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=560874#560874
All of you are welcome to write back.
Regarding the alleged disagreement in front of the students, I don't think the students ever understood the reason for my asking that question. They came into class today with all sorts of questions about ���� and ��ȭ, but made no mention of the director.
I hope all of you sleep well tonight. |
You missed the point entirely. we're not debating the merits of your methods but rather the way that you choose to operate.
For instance say I'm a boss at a local cafe. My chef is a very good chef. But when the coustmers ask for a burger and fries and he whips up a five course meal. It's a nice meal, but not what the coustmer ordered. So I ask him to please request the coustmers orders and he drags me out infront of the one coustmers order that he did correctly to show me up.
Then the chef complains that I don't know anything about food.
That sort of stuff wouldn't fly back home so why the hell should it fly here. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| This entire page of posts (Page 4), with the possible exception of Itaewonguy's post as I'm not sure if he's addressing the OP or Tomato's post, ought to be cut & pasted onto the thread that Tomato started about "Braille & Sign Language". |
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