Korean Job Discussion Forums

Deiz

I've come across a few examples of trouble for Brits with strong accents, but this reply from Paul Lee at IPO Union Schools really stunned me. I've taught in korea, lived in Canada and have a CELTA, on top of which I went to a very nice school and have always had a clear, neutral accent. To be dismissed out of hand - or have to label myself as "English" (nothing against my southern brethren but I'm Scottish) just to be deemed worthy of a hagwon job in Korea is beyond the pail...

This guy had been very interested in hiring me but the pay and conditions (1.7m, 13,000 an hour for o/t) were about the worst I've seen. When telling him this I attempted to clarify what I thought what was simply an error in the wording of their recruitment policy but then realized there was something far more sinister at work... To be denied employment for being Scottish, Irish or Welsh while everyone else including South Africans are invited to apply is hilarious. I don't like the tone of his "attitude" comment much either...

Anyone else come up against this at the hiring stage?

Excerpt from IPO Union Info Pack:

"Do you Qualify to Teach English?

You do if you can answer yes to the following:
Is English is your native language?
Are you from Australia, New Zealand, England, Canada, the United States, or South Africa?"

Me: "...the information pack talks about being a citizen of "England" -
there is no such thing, you can be a citizen of Britain (UK) but not
the individual countries which make up the union. This might be
confusing for people from other parts of the UK"

Reply from Paul Lee: "Give us the respect for knowing what we are looking for. Teachers from Ireland, Scotland and Wales have a far too strong accent to teach English here. We will only accept applications from English passport holders and then we screen them for attitude, most fail.

Directors for the IPO Union
Overseas Director: Paul Lee
Room 401, Gu-Bong Tower Building
Gwanjeo-Dong 1120, Seo-gu, Daejeon"

Hmmmmm.....

Deiz.

desultude · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:40 am Post subject:

Ouch!

The lovely few Irish we have here on our campus are the most congenial of the lot of us- and are quite articulate.

And the Scottish accent is lovely. The only Scot I have met here also had a great personality and a wonderful dry wit.

Someone has his head up his arse.

stumptown · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:45 am Post subject:

Generally your accents are too muddled and punctuated with so much cultural slang that no one from any other English speaking country can understand you, so I can understand his decision.

Ya-ta Boy · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994

That's a nasty one.

What came to mind: Start over with a different recruiter and lie. Write in your cover letter that you are English but temporarily living in Scotland. It sucks, but it should work. Even if you sign it Leslie Ian MacTavish.

On the other hand, maybe some country with a less squewed view would be better.

rok_the-boat · Joined: 24 Jan 2004

I am English English and have suffered such crap too.

keithinkorea · Joined: 17 Mar 2004

Many Scots have a very clear accent indeed. Certainly much clearer than a lot of people, though not all, from the southern states.

I've said it before and will say it again. Accent doesn't matter but clarity does. If you sound words clearly then it is great, if you sound like Rab c Nesbitt, then you shouldn't be teaching the English language.

I agree with the guy who said to lie about where you live. The UK is one country made up from 3 and a half countries, just lie about it.

Anyway that crappy school isn't worth working for anyway if they dont realise the importance of the kids being able to understand a variety of accents in the English language they're not worth working for.

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

Deiz · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:33 am Post subject:

Hey whoa nothing against South Africans / Zimbabweans, just I know they get passed over for jobs in Korea too... solidarity brothers and sisters.

I've seen and applied for a million jobs that say "England" and always presumed they meant the UK, seeing as Yeongguk is their catch all term for us. Dunno why I bothered to bring it up with this guy and I was amazed they were actively not recruiting Celts. I always state my nationality as British and don't really think I need to go the whole hog and say I'm English.

I - more than most people - fully understand that someone fresh from the highlands or darkest Glasgow may have a thick, slang riddled accent. You would hope a serious school / recruiter would look at a professional teacher with 2 years in Korea plus work experience on 4 continents and assume that their *thick scottish brogue* (which I never had in the first place) had suffered some modification...

keithinkorea · Joined: 17 Mar 2004

In many cases people from parts of Scotland speak far better English than many 'English' people. My mums from Edinburgh -though has lived in England most of her life- and speaks very clearly. Edinbugh and Aberdeen folks have a lilt more than any kind of strong accent, Glasgow is generally a different matter.

When a job asks for someone who is a Canadian what flavour of Canuck do they want? Do they want there students to say 'a boot' rather than 'about' in that case they shoudl say we only want people with a weird NW canada accent.

Clarity is the key and it doesn't matter whether you're from Africa, Europe, the Americas or even friggin' Antarctica. Even if you speak heavily accented Indian English you're probably a far better sound model for kids to emulate than a konglishee teacher from SK!

The true enemy of all of us English speakers is the Konglishee teachers here. Koreans want to learn English and it is our job to do it. Korean kids need to be taught to speak clearly and slowly, using a language isn't a race, it is not the quickest talker or the most vocal individual in a conversation that says the most.

I love teaching, I can teach British and international English spelling or American spelling. I know there are slight differences in grammar and I can teach children and adults that too. What is important is clarity of speech and communication.

What is a language? A means of communicating.

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

Deiz- you're right..- to be honest it irks me too, to claim I'm english in order to work here, but there you have the ignominy of life...

Talking of accent modification, I'd have to agree that people who've spent time in various parts of the English speaking world acquire a clearer, more mature accent. I mean I've spent years in Australia, England and Africa so I sound very neutral now. Koreans always comment on how well they can understand me.

Kimchieluver · Joined: 02 Mar 2005

Doesn't anybody have a problem with "Toll booth Willy"?

MissT · Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Location: Korea

sheba · Joined: 16 May 2005 Location: Here there and everywhere!

I have a Welsh and a Scottish friend back home... though I dont know how we remained friends becasue I can barely understand a word they say!! I think the situation sux, but I do understand their reasoning.

I am a kiwi and I didnt think my accent was too difficult, but students and teachers have trouble understanding me sometimes, even when I am talking slowly and clearly. I have to adsjust my pronounciation.

Damn that American accent that is so sought after!!

jaganath69 · Joined: 17 Jul 2003

I would have thought that an ability to understand English in all its forms would be a desirable outcome for learning the language. That aside, I have two passports, one Australian and one British. While I have lived mostly in Australia, 4 years in the UK and another 18 months in Thailand and Greece hanging with mostly British expats has left a bit of an impression on my accent and manner of speech. I have more success applying for jobs when I say I am British (something I have no problem doing) as Aussies are at the bottom of the food chain as far as Koreans are concerned with regards to esl teaching. What it comes down to how clearly you speak on the day. I'm told by some Koreans that when talking with a bunch of Aussies/Irish/English that I am hard to understand (there is a reason for that, lol) but can speak slowly and clearly enough to make myself understood to Koreans when I have to. Its not all bad news for non-NA native speakers here. There are plenty of us with good jobs and a load of employers who like a range of accents to round off their teaching programs. Just keep at it and don't settle for the crap you occaisionally get.

Wangja · Joined: 17 May 2004 Location: Seoul, Yongsan