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Calling the grammar squad

 
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:14 am    Post subject: Calling the grammar squad Reply with quote

I came across this mistake:

It's getting late. It's time we will leave.

I know that 'will leave' is wrong. The correct answer confuses me:

It's time we leave./It's time we left.

Can anyone explain this?
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Tiny_Tibbo



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Location: In My Skin

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's time for us to leave?

don't ask me why...I teach kindy...lol
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kermit_ojp



Joined: 11 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:29 am    Post subject: Grammar Reply with quote

It's time to leave.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me try this again.

I came across this:

In each of the following examples one choice is wrong. Identify the wrong answer and explain why it is wrong.

6. It's getting late. It's time we _______________.
a. It's time we left.
b. It's time we will leave.
c. It's time we were leaving.
d. It's time we leave.

I know 'b' has the mistake. Can anyone explain WHY it is a mistake?
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A short explanation is: if "it's time", that means now, not the future "will".
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Bunnymonster



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D seems a bit dubious to me too.

In fact with a comma after the it's time, "It's time(for us to go), we will leave (now)" I think b is perfectly ok.

D on the other hand needs an article in front of the time such as "its the time that we leave" or "its time for us to leave".

Then again I'd stick with a or c and am no grammar Guru, my six year olds rarely know what day it is let alone what time.........................
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bunnymonster, "It's time we leave" is perfectly fine. Substitute other verbs in its place, like "go", "eat", etc., as in "It's time we find out the answer to this grammatical question."

Bunnymonster wrote:
"its the time that we leave"

Shocked
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Bunnymonster



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those all sound wrong, I don't have my grammer eference books here so won't argue, But I'd write:

It's time we ate, its time went went and its time we found an answer to the grammer problem.......
Perhaps its an american thing, I struggle with the finer grammar points of that language...................

"Its the time that we leave" is definitely fine

Where's J.B. Clemmence when you need him..........................
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the saint



Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Location: not there yet...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VanIslander wrote:
Bunnymonster, "It's time we leave" is perfectly fine. Substitute other verbs in its place, like "go", "eat", etc., as in "It's time we find out the answer to this grammatical question."

Bunnymonster wrote:
"its the time that we leave"

Shocked

Sorry man but I speak English from another planet to yours. "It's time we leave" is perfectly wierd to me (and incidentally, the four teachers I'm sitting with now from three different English speaking nations). Don't you love the varieties of English?

@the OP, when this comes up as it occasionally does, I've fallen back on the fact that in English we use the past tenses to indicate not actually past time but some form of distance, be it time, possibility, relationship, probability or, as in this case, reality.

Compare your example "It's time we left" with "we should have left by now" which is another one students ask about - "Why not we should leave by now?" they ask me. In both cases I think the use of past tense is to indicate that the act of leaving is markedly different from what reality presents you with when you say it. IOW, you are sitting there all nice and cosy and you know that leaving time was ideally that second or five minutes ago. You use a past tense (obviously not in a conscious way) to indicate this 'distance' from reality.

If you were ready to go, by contrast, you might choose to say "It's time to leave." i.e. right now. "It's time we left" has a sense of "we really should" but there's more flexibility there than in the "It's time to leave"

This is all covered very much better than I can do here in Michael Lewis' classic book "The English Verb" which is one to shake off the cobwebs if you are serious about helping people get to grips with English grammar.

But hey, that's just my opinion and it fits in with my understanding of how English works... let's hear some others then...
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far, VanIslander has been the only one to address 'b', which is the sentence I'm asking about. Thanks Mr. Islander. Your answer is the same one I came up with, but my insecurities set in and I needed some validation.
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Bunnymonster



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok the more I think about it the more I'm going with D.

Here is my logic. The present simple in this case is referring to something that occurs in general (every day or occaisonlly, doesn't matter). The sentence at hand is talking about a specific time so we have to either use a past tense to show a specific time away from now, or the present progresive. The present simple cannot really be used o describe what is happening now (and only now).

The sentence with will in is not in my opinion talking about the future more the agreement to do something presently, such as "I will brush my teeth"

For example "Right now I play soccer" is obviously not correct where as "Right now, I will play soccer" is ok.

As I say I'm not sure, I'd really be wanting to circle both B and D...........
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wild stab in the dark. aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!


It's time we will leave. Is wrong because of the reason mentioned above.

The only way will could be used is : When it's time, we will leave.

However, I think it could be expressed correctly as:

It's time we should leave.

But I'm a bit hazy on my subjunctives............. Confused
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matthewwoodford



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Location, location, location.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the saint wrote:
Compare your example "It's time we left" with "we should have left by now" which is another one students ask about - "Why not we should leave by now?" they ask me.


I think your students may be confused about the meaning of 'by now'. It's very similar to 'before now' or 'already', hence the preferred time of leaving is definitely in the past. 'should have left' is just the past tense form of 'should leave'.

I don't even know where to look up the origin of 'It's time we left'. At a wild guess, 'left' is a conditional form because the sentence is expressing a wish??
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