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We need the XXVIII Amendment
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:24 am    Post subject: We need the XXVIII Amendment Reply with quote

XXVIII Amendment
(proposed)

When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one generation of people to alter the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and superior station to which the Laws of nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the change.

We hold this truth to be self-evident, that all people between the ages of 18 and 45 are equally awash in hormones and should therefore be denied any role in government whatsoever. They shall not hold office, local, state or national, nor shall they continue to hold the suffrage. They may however continue to be football team captains, prom queens and other positions of equal distinction.

The relevant portions of the XIX and XXVI Amendments are hereby revoked.

Proposed to Congress this day of June 15, 2005
**********

Input and advice from non-Americans of the requisite age is welcomed. Comments from anyone within the age range of 18 to 45 will be regarded with all the due respect they are entitled to, however little that may be.
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Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was something about the Superbowl. Ahhh crap, let's ban Roman numerals. No, wait.

All those between the ages of XVIII and XLV may not vote, eh? Sounds cooler when we write it that way. OK, good plan.


On a similar note I remember a discussion about a voting scheme supposedly put forward by Neville Shute, the author. You don't just get one vote all your life. It goes something like this:

One vote for...

I. attaining majority age (XVIII years).
II. serving in the military or other national service for at least one year.
III. obtaining a university degree.
IV. living overseas for at least one year.
V. marrying.
VI. running or having once run a business.
VII. reaching seniority age (LXV years).

Something like that.

Interesting discussion fodder. I admit it does have some appeal to me, my vote(s)---at this point worth three---overpowering some high school graduate's mere one vote.

On the other hand requirement #VI may be met by mowing lawns for the summer, or being born to some blue blood who can set you up.

BTW, this is a good topic for any advanced English class.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, we could call it the Hitler + XV amendment!

Quote:
TODAY it is my conviction that in general, aside from cases of unusual talent, a man should not engage in public political activity before his thirtieth year. He should not do so, because up to this time, as a rule, he is engaged in molding a general platform, on the basis of which he proceeds to examine the various political problems and finally establishes his own position on them. Only after he has acquired such a basic philosophy, and the resultant firmness of outlook on the special problems of the day, is he, inwardly at least, mature enough to be justified in partaking in the political leadership of the general public.
Otherwise he runs the risk of either having to change his former position on essential questions, or, contrary to his better knowledge and understanding, of clinging to a view which reason and conviction have long since discarded. In the former case this is most embarrassing to him personally, since, what with his own vacillations, he cannot justifiably expect the faith of his adherents to follow him with the same unswerving firmness as before; for those led by him, on the other hand, such a reversal on the part of the leader means perplexity and not rarely a certain feeling of shame toward those whom they hitherto opposed. In the second case, there occurs a thing which, particularly today, often confronts us: in the same measure as the leader ceases to believe in what he says, his arguments become shallow and flat, but he tries to make up for it by vileness in his choice of means. While he himself has given up all idea of fighting seriously for his political revelations (a man does not die for something which he himself does not believe in), his demands on his supporters become correspondingly greater and more shameless until he ends up by sacrificing the last shred of leadership and turning into a 'politician; in other words, the kind of man whose onlv real conviction is lack of conviction, combined with offensive impertinence and an art of lying, often developed to the point of complete shamelessness.
If to the misfortune of decent people such a character gets into a parliament, we may as well realize at once that the essence of his politics will from now on consist in nothing but an heroic struggle for the permanent possession of his feeding-bottle for himself and his family. The more his wife and children depend on it, the more tenaciously he will fight for his mandate. This alone will make every other man with political instincts his personal enemy; in every new movement he will scent the possible beginning of his end, and in every man of any greatness the danger which menaces him through that man.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to teach an Advanced Placement History class, which meant they were the cream of the senior class crop. During the part on electoral reform I always tried to convince them that high IQ should earn them extra votes to counter the 'James Anglens' of the world. (James was an infamous idiot in our school. He once ASKED his friend to shoot him in the hand.)

It wasn't all that hard to convince at least some of the kids. Once that was accomplished I shifted the debate to their weak belief in the ideals of the Declaration ('all men are created equal') and just what those words meant. It was entertaining to me and educational for them.

However, I am fairly serious about restricting the vote to people over XLV. A lot more is known now about how much biology affects people's thinking. The posts on this board have convinced me that otherwise intelligent people are suffering from a hormone overload. It's the kindest rationalization I can come up with for some of the nonsense posted here.
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flakfizer



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

However, I am fairly serious about restricting the vote to people over XLV. A lot more is known now about how much biology affects people's thinking. The posts on this board have convinced me that otherwise intelligent people are suffering from a hormone overload. It's the kindest rationalization I can come up with for some of the nonsense posted here.


And I suppose people's thinking is not affected by senility, dementia and menopause? Wink I suppose one could argue that older people should get more say because they have more experience and "wisdom." But one could also argue that those who pay the most taxes should have more say because they are the ones paying for the decisions made by Congress. One could say that the young should have more say because they are the ones who are going to have to live with the decisions we make now for a long, long time. Maybe it's not so bad the way it is now. Although, I still find it strange that one can vote before one can drink legally.
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Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I still find it strange that one can vote before one can drink legally.


Well, we don't want them drinking before they vote.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flakfizer wrote:
But one could also argue that those who pay the most taxes should have more say because they are the ones paying for the decisions made by Congress.

Um, that's pretty mucht the way things are now, you know. The rich have more say because of campaign contributions and the infulence of lobbyists ... am I imparting some news to you.

Ah, I understand. You use the word "should" to indicate that is not only how things are but how they ought to be. (Wasn't that the title of a book by Rush Limbaugh?)

Quote:
Maybe it's not so bad the way it is now.

Spoke too soon., Iguess that IS what you are saying.

Quote:

Although, I still find it strange that one can vote before one can drink legally

Clearly. Yata has it backwards. The only ones who should be allowed to vote are those between the ages of 18 and 21. The rest of us alre too addled by drink, or so it would seem.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
TODAY it is my conviction that in general, aside from cases of unusual talent, a man should not engage in public political activity before his thirtieth year.


mith, was that written by Hitler?
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flakfizer



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:
flakfizer wrote:
But one could also argue that those who pay the most taxes should have more say because they are the ones paying for the decisions made by Congress.

Um, that's pretty mucht the way things are now, you know. The rich have more say because of campaign contributions and the infulence of lobbyists ... am I imparting some news to you.

Ah, I understand. You use the word "should" to indicate that is not only how things are but how they ought to be. (Wasn't that the title of a book by Rush Limbaugh?)

Quote:
Maybe it's not so bad the way it is now.

Spoke too soon., Iguess that IS what you are saying.

Quote:

Although, I still find it strange that one can vote before one can drink legally

Clearly. Yata has it backwards. The only ones who should be allowed to vote are those between the ages of 18 and 21. The rest of us alre too addled by drink, or so it would seem.


Not sure what you're talking about Bob. The OP was about suffrage (who should be able to vote). Leslie mentioned another vote-related idea (how much should each person's vote count) and I was continuing on the same topic. The rich having more influence because of campaign donations and because of lobbyists and all is a separate topic. Yes, the rich have more influence because they buy politicians and such. However, it is my understanding that each eligible voter, no matter how rich or poor, still gets one vote.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flakfizer wrote:
The rich having more influence because of campaign donations and because of lobbyists and all is a separate topic. Yes, the rich have more influence because they buy politicians and such.

The influence of money on the process of democracy is pretty pertinent, one would think, to any discussion of the value of individual votes. There is no point at all to walking into a voting booth if someone who has had money in his family for generations can make a donation in the right place and completely cancel out any effect that vote might have.

And I do think you are defending the right of wealthy people to purchase legislation at their whim.


Last edited by The Bobster on Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Restrictions on sufferage?
Great idea, universal suffrage has been a bust anyway.

But I think your admendment should be adjusted slightly, or taken to its logical conclusion if you will:

It should only be males (less hormonal surges and fluctuations, y'know),

between 35-60 (hey, too old is just as bad as too young- illness, disease take their toll- their minds are more on retirement than anything else),

with incomes of the national median income and plus or minus $30,000 each way (you can't trust the poor any more than the rich, right? somebody who is comfortable but neither struggling nor scheming to hang on to a financial empire are going to be the most clear-headed and impartial when it comes to fiscal matters, right?)

and with no religious affiliations- we don't need fanatics making the laws.

It's about as logical as the amendment in the OP, wouldn't you agree?

O, Brave new world!
Extra Soma for the disenfranchised!
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:04 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Hmm.

"Don't trust anyone over the age of 30".

Could it be that those people are getting older now?

Are you not, by my calculations, of that generation?
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:15 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

And, for that matter, if you're arguing biology, I'd set them all the same.

A teacher told me that the drinking age was set at 21 because that's when one's liver is finally adult.

To me, that is retarded.

If you're old enough to be sent to war, then you should be old enough to decide whether such a war is justified. Otherwise, we have guys like our president, who despite his youthful hormonal imbalance, opted out of getting shot at and now finds, with his glands in synch, that it's fine to send other people to their deaths.

Nope. Nothing for me today. Thanks.

I thought it would be about how it would be ok to smoke a joint before you're assigned such duties as dying.
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flakfizer



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:
flakfizer wrote:
The rich having more influence because of campaign donations and because of lobbyists and all is a separate topic. Yes, the rich have more influence because they buy politicians and such.

The influence of money on the process of democracy is pretty pertinent, one would think, to any discussion of the value of individual votes. There is no point at all to walking into a voting booth if someone who has had money in his family for generations can make a donation in the right place and completely cancel out any effect that vote might have.

And I do think you are defending the right of wealthy people to purchase legislation at their whim.

I still don't get you, Bob. I am not defending the right of wealthy people to purchase legislation. Perhaps you just miss sparring with someone? I am saying that voting rights and campaign issues are two different things. I wish there were much greater limitations on campaign fund raising. I wish there were a campaign fund ceiling so that a much larger number of people in the US had an actual chance at having a successfull campaign-perhaps a ceiling low enough that a candidate could raise the maximum amount of money for campaigning without ever receiving a penny from large lobbying groups. But, I'm still in favor of one person, one vote.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flakfizer wrote:
I am saying that voting rights and campaign issues are two different things.

Campaign funding is not the same as "campaign issues." It's about the ability to present issues to the public, ALL the public.

Quote:
I wish there were much greater limitations on campaign fund raising. I wish there were a campaign fund ceiling so that a much larger number of people in the US had an actual chance at having a successfull campaign-perhaps a ceiling low enough that a candidate could raise the maximum amount of money for campaigning without ever receiving a penny from large lobbying groups.

We agree so far, but yoiu are missing the essential crux : to get time on the airwaves, you gotta sign a check, so your wishes and mine seem to be in synch, but still if wishes were horses ...

The solution is simple and has been for a while. The publlic airwaves are owned by the public and regulated by the govt. You want ot sell cat food, thgen hey, every 4 years you gotta give some time to people who are running for office. That is in our power as a nation and a govt. We can do it - but we don't.

It amounts to a free giveaway of a national resource, just like saying, "Here, log all the trees out of Yellowstone and Yosemite, and don't even think about kicking back a dime to the people who gave it to you ...."

Quote:
Bit I'm still in favor of one person, one vote.

As long as you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the impact of money, it is one person, 5000 votes, or more.

That was my point, and you tried to make it mute, but have failed.
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